The following is a transcript of an interview with National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Dec. 1, 2024.
MAJOR GARRETT: We are joined now by President Biden’s National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan. He is in Newcastle, New Hampshire this morning. Jake, good morning. It’s good to see you. The Hamas video release of Edan Alexander, I know the administration regards it as a cruel propagandistic maneuver, but do you detect anything tactical at all in the timing of the release of this video, Jake?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well Major, first, thanks for having me. And as far as this video, it is a cruel reminder of the barbarity and the brutality of Hamas holding so many innocent people hostage, including Americans, including Edan. We were in touch with Edan’s family yesterday. I’ll be talking to the families of all of the American hostages, including Edan’s family this week. And I do think that Hamas is feeling the pressure. They’re feeling the pressure because one of their main partners in crime here, Hezbollah, has now cut a ceasefire deal, and they thought that Hezbollah would be with them till the end. They’re feeling the pressure, of course, because their top leader, Sinwar, has been killed. So, they may be looking anew at the possibility of getting a ceasefire and hostage deal. And we are working actively with all of the key players in the region, including Israel and Turkey and Qatar and Egypt, to try to bring that about. In the coming days, conversations will be happening, even this very day, to try to make that happen as soon as possible.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jake, it has been reported that the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a conversation with Edan’s family, said, quote, conditions are ripe, unquote, for a hostage deal. How do you assess that?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, we have been working closely with the Israelis since President Biden went out into the Rose Garden and announced the ceasefire with- across the border between Israel and Lebanon, and what President Biden said was this opens a real opportunity to get that ceasefire and hostage deal in Gaza. He also spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu that day, and Prime Minister Netanyahu told him he agreed, the time is right. The moment is now. Let’s drive to get it done. And now, if the world can come together to increase the pressure on Hamas, we can finally break through, get a deal in place, get a ceasefire, get a surge of humanitarian assistance, and crucially, get those hostages, including those Americans, home safely to their families.
MAJOR GARRETT: And what have the weekend talks in Egypt told you about the prospects for that?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Look you can never really tell about whether you’re going to get across the finish line until you do, even if you get down to the 5,4,3,2,1, yard line. Punching it in, getting the deal, finally getting it done, that requires the ultimate breakthrough. So I can’t predict whether it’s going to happen. What I can say is, there has been progress. There have been steps forward. There is a renewed sense that this is possible, but we’ve been here before Major where we thought we were close, it didn’t pan out. And so I’m not going to get ahead of myself or make any predictions or provide false hope. What I will say is, we’re driving at this with everything we’ve got. We think we have a chance, but we won’t rest until we get it done.
MAJOR GARRETT: The fate of the hostages, of course, on the administration’s mind, on the minds of all Americans and all in the region, but also Jake, I’m sure you saw over the last couple of days the video from Gaza of Palestinians surging to try to get a loaf of bread, in some cases, crushing one another unintentionally. All suggestions are that the humanitarian situation there is- if it already isn’t past crisis stage, near famine crisis stage. How much does that intensify the need to get this thing across, as you just said, the finish line?
JAKE SULLIVAN: The humanitarian situation in Gaza is a crisis. You have too many people who are suffering from shortages of food, water, medicine, access to sanitation. Innocent people who deserve a measure of peace and deserve access to all of those life saving supplies in abundance. The United States has been working week in, week out, month in, month out, to open crossings, to move trucks, to ensure that humanitarian aid gets in. And at critical moments, we have been able to intervene in ways that have staved off the worst case scenarios of famine. But it’s constantly stalking Gaza, and so more needs to be done to get aid in. Now, part of the problem, as we’ve seen just in the last 24 hours, is not actually moving aid from outside Gaza into Gaza, but moving it around Gaza once it’s inside. The UN, in fact, said it was suspending movement from certain areas of Gaza because of concerns about looting. These are all things that would be helped if there were a ceasefire in place. Because with a ceasefire, with calm in Gaza, it becomes that much more straightforward to move the aid around the strip so that it can get to people, including to people who are currently in areas that are experiencing very heavy conflict. So one of the key things that we would like to achieve in this cease fire deal is the surge of humanitarian aid to go along with the release of the hostages.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jake is the probability of a ceasefire enhanced or undercut when someone such as South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham says, President elect Trump wants a cease fire before inauguration deal. Does that help you or hurt you?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Look, I think the key actor right now holding the decision on the cease fire is Hamas. And the key thing motivating Hamas is not American politics or the American presidential transition, it’s their determination about whether or not it makes sense for them at this point, after Hezbollah has abandoned them, after their leader has been killed, after their military formations have been degraded, to finally say yes to a ceasefire and hostage deal. That’s going to be the telling thing, more than anything that’s said back here. But I will say this, there has been very good coordination between our team and the incoming team on all of the aspects of the crisis in the Middle East. We felt it was important that we be in touch with them, to keep them up to speed on what’s happening, because this handoff has got to be smooth, and they, in turn, have reciprocated by being open and transparent and working with us. This is how it should be in a transition. This is what we’re going to keep driving for for every day that we have left in office.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jake, I want to have a conversation with you about leverage as regards the Israeli government. I want to play for you something that Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen said on this program a week ago. Let’s listen.
[SEN. VAN HOLLEN SOT]
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: We’ve seen this pattern where President Biden makes demands of Prime Minister Netanyahu, only to be ignored or slapped down entirely. And then President Biden sends more bombs and more money. That is not an effective use of leverage.
[END SOT]
MAJOR GARRETT: Your response?
JAKE SULLIVAN: First of all, I respect Senator Van Hollen. He knows these issues as well as any person in Washington, and he is passionate about them. But of course, we have a different perspective. We have, at various points over the course of this conflict, made asks of the Israelis consistent with our values and our interests. Have we gotten everything we asked for? No. Have we seen a change in Israeli behavior, with respect to the movement of humanitarian assistance, with respect to how they conducted certain military operations, including in places like Rafah? Yes, we have. And so we do believe that we’ve had a constructive engagement with the Israeli government and also been able to make a difference on the ground with respect to the flow of humanitarian aid. In addition, we worked closely with the Israeli government to bring about a ceasefire in Lebanon, a ceasefire people said wasn’t possible until a new administration took office. And in fact, the fact that we were able to do that says a lot about our ability to work with the Israeli government to generate an outcome, including one that has many political detractors inside the Israeli system. So we’ll keep at it every single day. I respect voices like Senator Van Hollen. I look forward to continuing to work with him. But of course, we see things a different way.
MAJOR GARRETT: Jake, I want to turn your attention to Ukraine, where the Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenskyy appeared to indicate in a recent interview that he could possibly be open to a peace settlement in which Russia retains the territory it has. Ukraine, meaning Kyiv keeps all the rest, if that is swiftly brought under the umbrella of NATO. Is that the outline or the contours of something you believe- the administration believes could be workable?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, Major, I’m sorry to disappoint you. I can’t negotiate in public on your program, and I certainly can’t negotiate on behalf of President Zelensky, who really should speak for himself when it comes to the destiny of his country. The future of Ukraine should be determined at the negotiating table by decisions of the Ukrainians not imposed from the outside by the United States or anybody else. I will say though, that we have been engaging with Ukrainians over the course of this year on how you marry the support we provided them for use on the battlefield with a diplomatic strategy for the negotiating table. And we’ve been driving towards that before the election, we continue to drive at it, and ultimately, the new team will have to work with President Zelensky to determine the diplomatic way forward.
MAJOR GARRETT: And some recent decisions in the administration have been criticized by Republicans as setting the situation on fire, meaning ATACMS and anti-personnel mines. Those advocates for Ukraine say those decisions are way too late to change the battle space in any strategically important way. Where do you come down?
JAKE SULLIVAN: Look what President Biden has done at critical moments in the conflict, is try to provide Ukraine with the tools that it needs to succeed. Anti-personnel land mines, which are non persistent mines that shut off after two weeks, so they don’t represent a long term threat to civilians. These could be helpful against the particular type of tactics that the Russian infantry is using right now in eastern Ukraine. So he’s sending them. The ATACMS permission into Russian territory. That was a decision he took after Russia escalated by introducing North Korean troops into this war, a foreign army into this war. So that was a responsible, coordinated step that we took with other allies to respond to that provocation, to that escalation by Russia. The President has been clear all along. We are going to give Ukraine the tools it needs. We are also going to do what we can to put them in the best possible position on the battlefield, so they’ll be in the best possible position at the negotiating table, and then that this war will ultimately end in diplomacy.
MAJOR GARRETT: National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan. Thanks so much for your time.
JAKE SULLIVAN: Thank you.
MAJOR GARRETT: And we’ll be right back with a lot more “Face the Nation.” Please stay with us.
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