On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent
- Rep. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio
- Sen. Mark Kelly, Democrat of Arizona
- Rep. John James, Republican of Michigan
- European Union diplomat Kaja Kallas
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: the latest on the fallout following Friday’s Oval Office brawl. And Americans say they want more action from the Trump administration when it comes to fighting inflation.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): You don’t have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards, but right now, you don’t…
(CROSSTALK)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): We are not playing cards.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was a debacle seen and heard around the world, as the meeting meant to solidify an alliance between the U.S. and Ukraine melted down into a shouting match featuring President Trump and Vice President Vance versus Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
U.S. and Ukrainian officials are now in full damage control mode, with European leaders racing to bring both sides back together and move towards a resolution to the war in Ukraine.
Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent crafted the agreement with Ukraine that fell apart during that meeting. We will talk to him about that, as well as the administration’s plans to help the economy.
We will also talk with Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly and two Republican members of Congress, Ohio’s Mike Turner and Michigan’s John James.
And just before President Trump’s first formal address to Congress, how do Americans think he’s doing when it comes to tackling their priorities?
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We will get to the ramifications of that meeting in the Oval Office in a moment, but we want to begin with the issues that are top of mind for most Americans, inflation and the economy.
They may be at the top of their priority list for the new administration, but we are seeing a disconnect. When asked what they think the administration is prioritizing, Americans see inflation and the economy taking a back seat to the border, the federal work force, tariffs, and more.
In fact, according to our CBS News poll, although people do approve of him on some of those other issues, there is a 50-point gap between people who say the president should make inflation a priority and those who say he is.
We want to welcome to the program Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent.
Good morning to you, Mr. Treasury Secretary.
SCOTT BESSENT (U.S. Treasury Secretary): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, let’s dig on – in on this, because it seems there’s a bit of a perception gap there.
Our polling also shows at least half the country reports concern about paying for food and groceries and housing. They continue to call the economy bad, even more so than last month, and 49 percent told us the economy is getting worse.
When can Americans expect to experience the benefits that President Trump said would be coming in day one?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Yes, what – you know, Margaret, what I find interesting is, for the past year-and-a-half and during the campaign, most of the media said, oh, the economy is great, it’s just a vibe session.
Now that President Trump’s in office, there’s an economic problem. And I will tell you what the problem was. This is…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We were pretty straightforward on this program.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, I haven’t seen this program, but the – in general, this idea that working-class Americans didn’t know what they were talking about, they didn’t know their lived experience, they didn’t know what their pocketbooks were feeling.
And I will tell you, President Trump was elected, one of the reasons was the affordability crisis, and we are setting about doing that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Number one.
(CROSSTALK)
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: So, after four years, four years of disastrous policies, they were running these gigantic deficits that the – that led to the affordability problem, massive government regulations, so what we had was a demand shock from the government spending that was met by supply constraints with overregulation.
So we are in the process of deregulating, which will free the supply side, and we are cutting back the government spending. It took four years to get us here. President Trump has been in office five weeks.
And I can tell you, we’re working every day. What I will point out, interest rates, the 10-year bond, which I am focused on, have been down every week since President Trump was president. Mortgage rates have been down every week. So that’s a pretty good start.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I hear you that sometimes the data lags reality, but when we are talking about people’s perceptions of the economy, it’s just how they’re feeling right now, we see in our polling, 52 percent of Americans say Trump’s policies are making grocery prices go up.
They explicitly said that on this bar chart you see there. So it’s an experience and a perception issue. When does that shift? When do we see the benefits of the planning you say is under way?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Look, I think President Trump said that he’ll own the economy in six or 12 months. But I can tell you that we are working to get these prices down every day.
But it took four years to get us here, and we’ve had five weeks. So interest rates are down. That’s a very good start toward housing affordability, toward auto affordability, and we are tackling this.
At Treasury, we are going to appoint an affordability czar. We are going to have an affordability council. We are laser focused on this. We…
MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean? What’s an affordability czar?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Someone who picks the five or eight areas where this administration can make a big difference for working-class Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Well, one of the things that we hear the president talk about a lot is the plan to use tariffs. I know this falls under the purview of Commerce and the trade rep, but you have spoken a bit about it before.
If the president does roll out the 10 percent tariffs that he says are coming on China this week, the 25 percent on Canada and Mexico, how much do you think they will impact what Americans experience? The Peterson Institute says it will cost households an additional $1,200 a year.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Look, a couple of things.
I respect my friends at the Peterson Institute. I think they’re a bit alarmist. I think a lot of their supporters are anti-tariff, so they take an anti-tariff position.
And, look, we have the experience of President Trump’s first term, where the tariffs did not affect prices. And it’s a holistic approach, that there will be tariffs, there will be cuts in regulation, there will be cheaper energy. So I would expect that very quickly we will be down to the Fed’s 2 percent target.
So I’m expecting inflation to continue dropping over the year.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So should we expect these tariffs to come March 4?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, there’s a series of tariffs. There’s March 4, and then there are the big – the – there’s the big tariff program that’s going to be outlined on April 2 by commerce and USTR, and that’s the president’s notion of reciprocal tariffs.
And that’s going to be very path-dependent. It’s – we are going to show, what are other countries’ tariffs on specific goods, what are non-tariff barriers, what are the currency manipulation, what is manipulation of financing or labor manipulation, and what are these horrendous fines that the European Union is putting on our tech companies, and we are going to evaluate that and give them an opportunity to remedy that.
So we could either see a ratcheting up in tariffs, or, if our trading partners want to remedy what has been unfair trade, then we could see the tariffs come off. So it’s going to be path-dependent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s Europe in April, mainly?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, that’s across the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
So when you say the Peterson Institute is too alarmist with $1,200 a year on the average household, what’s the cost of the household? You think it’s zero?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, we – we don’t know yet, because it’s path- dependent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: But what I can tell you is that I’m not worried about China. China is going to – China will pay for the China tariffs, because their business model is exporting their way out of this inflation.
They are the most imbalanced, unbalanced economy in modern times. And the idea that, because of a tariff, that they would lower their production is wrong. They are going to continue flooding the market. They will eat this price decrease. They will eat any tariffs that go on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I saw you say on Bloomberg recently that Mexico has offered to match the U.S. tariffs on China, and that you would like for the Canadians to do so as well. You described it as a fortress in North America. Is that in the works?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: I – I – I don’t know yet. We’ll see. The Mexican leadership has offered to do that. We haven’t heard from the Canadians, but I think that would be a very good start, because…
MARGARET BRENNAN: By Tuesday, potentially, to offset the potential punishment on them?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: By Tuesday, or maybe the tariff wall goes up, and then we see what happens from there.
But I can tell you that, under the cover of COVID, China dramatically increased their export capacity, and they are trying to export their way to prosperity. They are in an economic crisis. They have gigantic deflation. And it’s unacceptable for them to export that to the rest of the world. And I think North America would be a very good start for pushing back against this unfair trade policy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that would be a significant development.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Very significant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which would avoid tariffs that are supposed to go out on Tuesday.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: We’ll see.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, we’ll be watching that space.
I want to ask you about Ukraine. You were in that Oval Office meeting that went sideways on Friday. He – President Zelenskyy was told to leave the White House before he signed the minerals agreement that I know you have been working on. He said yesterday, though, he is ready to sign it.
He called it “the first step towards security guarantees. It’s not enough. We need more than just that. A cease-fire without security guarantees is dangerous for Ukraine.”
Is the deal still on the table, or has President Trump instructed you to drop the project?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Margaret, it is impossible to have an economic deal without a peace deal. The sine qua non for an economic deal is that Ukrainian leadership wants a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I thought this was a building block towards getting to a peace deal.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, it was supposed to be, but President Zelenskyy came into the Oval on Friday. There were – there were three things that were going to be done. There was going to be a press conference.
There was going to be a private lunch with 16 of us. And as you can see from Dan Scavino’s – the post on his X account, we were all ready set up to sign – to sign the deal. So it’s unclear now. President Zelenskyy has thrown off the sequencing.
And, Margaret, let me tell you the most tragic part of this. The – President Trump’s idea for this economic arrangement was to further intertwine the American people and Ukrainian people and show no daylight…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But…
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … to show the Russian leadership that there was no daylight. And President Zelenskyy came into the Oval Office and tried to relitigate in front of the world the deal.
And we were going – the place to have done it would have been in the private lunch.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, well, it’s news to me that this was – that the sequencing is shifting, that you are saying you have to agree to a peace deal before the minerals agreement? There aren’t even negotiations for a peace deal under way.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, first of all, it’s not a minerals agreement. It’s a general economic agreement. So, calling it a minerals agreement is incorrect.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And I think we have to see if President Zelenskyy wants to proceed.
What’s – what’s the use in having an economic agreement that’s going to be rendered moot if he wants the fighting to continue? President Trump wants a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin, it’s unclear if he wants a peace deal, though. There are no negotiations underway. The secretary of state said that on another network this morning.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And President Trump – President Trump has said that. President Trump is trying to move towards peace. He said repeatedly during – during that episode in the Oval…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: … we don’t know if we’ll get a peace deal, but we got to try.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Last Sunday, President Trump’s envoy Steve Witkoff said on another network that the plan for negotiations was the so-called draft Istanbul protocol. The Institute for the Study of War says that this would leave Ukraine helpless in the face of future Russia – Russian threats or aggression.
If – if that’s described as the future of U.S. diplomacy and the framework, why isn’t Mr. Zelenskyy asking the right question when he says, how can I agree to a cease-fire with no security guarantees or even a minerals agreement or investment agreement without security guarantees?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Well, look, I think the plan is for the European Union to provide this security, not NATO, the European Union.
And, again, the tragedy of Friday – and I don’t know what President Zelenskyy was thinking. We had President of France Emmanuel Macron in on Monday. Great meeting. The – we had Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Thursday, fantastic meeting. They were all on board the arc of the peace agreement.
All President Zelenskyy had to do was come in and sign this economic agreement and, again, show no daylight, no daylight, between Ukrainian people and the American people.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: And he chose to blow that up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the deal is no longer on the table, just to be abundantly clear?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Not at present.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Treasury Secretary Bessent, thank you for coming in today.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT: Good. Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our social media producers tell us that, as of this morning, we have had more than 100 million views on posts related to the meeting across our CBS News social media platforms.
There is no shortage of Trump viral videos, but this one has spread around the world.
(Begin VT)
J.D. VANCE (Vice President of the United States): Mr. President – Mr. President, with respect, I think it’s disrespectful for you to come into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in front of the American media.
Right now, you guys are going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president for trying to bring an end to this conflict.
(CROSSTALK)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY (Ukrainian President): Have you ever been to Ukraine, that you say what problems we have?
VICE PRESIDENT J.D. VANCE: I have been to…
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: Then come once.
First of all, during the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you have nice ocean and don’t feel now, but you will feel it in the future.
God bless…
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: God bless…
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): You don’t – you don’t know that. You don’t know that.
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: God bless you do not have a war.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel. We’re trying to solve a problem. Don’t tell us what we’re going to feel.
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: I’m not telling you, I’m answering…
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Because you’re in no position to dictate that. Remember that.
You don’t have the cards right now. With us, you start having cards, but right now, you don’t…
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: We are not playing cards. I am very serious, Mr. President. I’m very serious.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You’re playing cards. You’re gambling with the lives of millions of people.
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: You think…
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You’re gambling with World War III.
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: What do you think…
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You’re gambling with World War III. And what you’re doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country…
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: I’m with all respect to your country.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: … that’s backed you, far more than a lot of people said they should have.
(CROSSTALK)
VICE PRESIDENT J.D. VANCE: Have you said “Thank you” once this entire meeting?
PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: A lot of times.
VICE PRESIDENT J.D. VANCE: No, in this entire meeting, have you said “thank you”?
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we are back now with Republican Congressman Mike Turner.
Good to have you back.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R-Ohio): Thank you. Appreciate you having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, what were you thinking when you saw that Oval Office meltdown?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I mean, the first thing, obviously, is, we have to realize why this is important and really what was at stake here.
I mean, this is important because Ukraine is important. This is about the fight between authoritarianism and freedom and democracy. This is the Ronald Reagan evil empire against democracy. So, as we’re watching this fight, we have to be concerned about what’s crumbling here and what needs to be put back together.
I think that’s what we all felt in our – in our stomachs as – in our anxiety as we watched what was at risk here. The second thing is, is really how inappropriate this was for Zelenskyy. I mean, the context is, this was a signing agreement. Zelenskyy had been negotiating with the United States on a minerals deal, an economic deal, as the Treasury secretary said.
He’d been doing so for weeks. I’d met with him with members of Congress in Munich.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: He had told us some of the terms that he wanted. He had a successful deal. The United States had conceded. He was flying here under the pretext that he was going to sign this deal.
This should have been a win. As he’s sitting in the Oval Office, he said, I want the president to stand with Ukraine. In moments, he was going to be standing with the president of the United States with a win that he had negotiated.
And instead of taking that win, he turned it into a debate on American security guarantees on – during peace negotiations – on the peace negotiations, instead of taking that win and then from that going forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Well, it all went sideways after a Polish reporter in the room asked President Trump about his perceived alignment with Vladimir Putin. That’s what the president reacted to. And then the vice president jumped in praising Trump’s diplomacy.
And that’s when Zelenskyy said what he said about, well, what kind of cease-fire and diplomacy are you talking about? I have brokered deals with Vladimir Putin in the past.
Do you really think that this was all to blow it up, or was it just people are talking past each other? What do you actually think happened?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I think, fundamentally, here, again, the – you don’t fly a quarter across the world for a signing ceremony for a deal with the president of the United States and turn it into a debate on American security guarantees on peace negotiations that are unrelated to the mineral deal that you came – the economic deal that you came to sign.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you can’t take things out of the context in the vac – like, treat them in a vacuum.
Earlier in the week, President Trump had referred to Volodymyr Zelenskyy as a dictator. He had instructed diplomats…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Which he had retracted because the negotiations had…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he then said, did I really do that?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Because the…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And then he told people at the U.N….
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: In Trump’s way, he had taken back because the negotiations had gone forward in a way that was positive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But there – this isn’t happening in a vacuum.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It is within question, in fact, where America’s alliances are.
French President Emmanuel Macron told a newspaper overnight: “There need to be – there needs to be a strategic dialogue with European countries that don’t have nuclear weapons because they can no longer depend on the American nuclear deterrent.”
That’s an incredible statement from a NATO ally.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Right. And, again…
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is – this is how this is heard around the world.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Right. And I – again, all of these things are really hysterics and way overstatements, but they’re all coming from the crux here of the – that Zelenskyy has made – and I truly believe this is Zelenskyy.
He has made a precondition of going forward with peace negotiations American security guarantees. And what you saw was him enter into a very public debate with the president of the United States in the Oval Office of, I want – and you heard it, you actually yourself said it to the secretary of the Treasury – I want an American security guarantee as a precondition for peace negotiations.
No one is going to – no president is going to give him a – as a precondition to peace negotiations. You do the peace negotiations. Then you determine what security guarantees, what arrangements…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but he also referred back to failed peace negotiations and failed diplomatic agreements brokered by Europe that had no American guarantee that failed. So it’s – what’s different this time? That’s the question.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: But you don’t continue to work for it.
You got to hear President Trump – I mean, he engaged by saying, people are dying. We need to stop the dying. We can’t have – we can’t go into World War II and – and imploring him to let’s go forward with the peace negotiations, and then we will determine what security arrangements need to be made around the peace negotiations.
The fact that Zelenskyy has it backwards, the cart before the horse. I want a security guarantee to go into peace negotiations…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … is really what has caused the impediment.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you comfortable with the U.S. diplomatic outreach and the decision to no longer isolate Vladimir Putin?
Because he has not said anything about making any kind of concession. Volodymyr Zelenskyy is being asked to do that publicly.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, actually, no, he has not.
But the Russians showed up. I mean, I’m very comfortable that Marco Rubio, as our secretary of state, in the lead with these negotiations, is very confident in…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is he in the lead with the negotiations?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I think…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or is it Steve Witkoff?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I think he is in the lead with the negotiations. I’m very – I’m very confident of his strength. He has – has commenced the negotiations.
I believe that Zelenskyy needs to trust him and he needs to not have this precondition of American security guarantees, which are not coming.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Remember, Ukraine has been before every president since Clinton, Clinton in the issue of the Budapest, when they were giving up their nuclear weapons.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Obama, Bush, everybody has had Ukraine before them. Every American president has declined to give American security guarantees as a precondition to any negotiations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which is why Zelenskyy is saying, give them to me now, because nothing stopped them before. So…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: The peace negotiations need to occur.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And then we need to look at the – what are the construct of what security guarantees needs to be and what is that construct that needs to be put in place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you something because of the position you have on Armed Services.
CBS has confirmed these reports that Defense Secretary Hegseth has ordered U.S. Cyber Command to temporarily halt cyber operations and planning against Russia. “The Washington Post” reports that that’s as long as the negotiations continue. There are no negotiations under way.
Does this concern you? Have you been briefed on this?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I can’t – I don’t – no, I’m not – unaware of that. And I don’t believe that that would be – there are too many, I’m certain, considerations there for that to be an accurate statement, so blanket.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But they have ordered Cyber Command to halt cyber operations.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I…
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s the linkage to the negotiations that you’re questioning?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Considering what I know that – that – considering what I know what – what Russia is currently doing against the United States, that would, I’m certain, not be an accurate statement of the current status of the United States’ operations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You are confident that the United States…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I’m confident, considering what Russia is currently doing against the United States, that the United States, the status against Russia would not be that, considering what we are facing from Russia operations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, thank you very much…
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … Congressman Turner.
We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump will be addressing a joint session of Congress this Tuesday. Be sure to join us for that. Our network coverage of the speech starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern time Tuesday night.
But CBS News’ 24/7 special coverage begins at 5:00.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, Michigan Republican Congressman John James. And our own Anthony Salvanto joins us with more from our CBS News poll.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Senator Mark Kelly in Tucson, Arizona.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You were one of the lawmakers who met with President Zelenskyy prior to the Oval Office meltdown. Senator Lindsey Graham later told reporters he had warned Zelenskyy, quote, “don’t take the bait.” Do you think Zelenskyy took the bait? Is that how you understand what happened?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think he was cornered and then he was bullied in the Oval Office. And, Margaret, that just makes us look weak. You know, I think Donald Trump was trying to look tough. J.D. Vance was trying to look tough. The only winner in that exchange is Putin, who’s a criminal, who’s killing, you know, hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
So, it was a sad day for our country. It was a dumpster fire of diplomacy. It should not have been done. That kind of negotiation should not be done in public in front of cameras.
When we had our meeting earlier in the day with Zelenskyy, he – he – he has this like habitual gratitude. He was very thankful. And the chairman of the Armed Services Committee kicked the cameras out of the room before we started to talk. That’s the way this should be handled, not what – not what Donald Trump did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the treasury secretary, who was just with us, said you can’t get an economic deal without a peace deal first. So, it seems the dynamic is changing in terms of what the Trump administration is putting forward here.
What was your understanding of what Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s concerns were?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I mean, his concern is that he doesn’t have a security guarantee and he’s being asked to give up minerals, that this is a business deal.
Margaret, we’re about to celebrate our 250th birthday as a country. And I didn’t think we were just in it for – for the money. I mean we are a country of values and principles. We stand with our allies. He needs security guarantees.
Yes, I understand this concept of an economic deal and a ceasefire, but the economic deal comes after the ceasefire. None of that makes sense. They need to get in a room, including with the Russians. I mean have the Russians given any indication that they want peace?
Our Treasury secretary questioned whether Zelenskyy wants peace. Of course he does. He has his population being murdered, raped, children are kidnapped. He wants out of this situation. But he – he – he – he’s having a hard time –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Obviously, negotiating this in public. By the way, I mean his English is not the best. So, this is hard for him. To corner him in the Oval Office on that kind of stage was wrong. And it makes us look weaker as a nation and it makes us less safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve been to Ukraine a number of times. Our last guest, Mike Turner, has been in Ukraine a number of times as well. Neither the president nor the vice president have at all. J.D. Vance, the vice president, said to Zelenskyy, those are propaganda tours. Is that what you did? Did you go on propaganda tours?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: No, I mean, I – I went into patriot batteries and, you know, talked to the troops that every night are defending themselves from incoming ballistic missiles, and cruise missiles, trying to keep their population alive. I met with soldiers, you know, some of which are, you know, amputees at this point who just – and soldiers that just came from the frontlines to talk to me in person about what the situation on the ground is. I met with pilots there who were about to get their F-16s. And we talked specifically about, you know, how can you use this airplane in combat?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think J.D. Vance, the vice president, with all due respect, it sounds like he’s watching videos on the internet. And to say to Zelenskyy, you’re not being thankful enough. I mean Zelenskyy thanks the American people all the time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: And I’ve got to say, Margaret, if – if – if we can end this – and I want this to end as much as anybody –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: But it has to end in a way that the Russians are going to respect. And what was in the Oval Office yesterday was a demonstration of weakness. And I can tell you, Putin does not respect weakness.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about the U.S. border. The number of migrants crossing the southern border illegally in President Trump’s first full term – first full month in office plunged to a level we haven’t seen in 25 years. This is according to data reviewed by CBS. This seems like this is good for your state. Do these numbers prove President Trump’s theory is right?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I think the numbers being down, that’s a good thing. What we need long-term is a negotiation with the Republicans on longstanding border policy. What the administration is doing, especially with ICE raids in schools, with flying – repatriating people who often aren’t only criminals, in military airplanes, for intimidation, talking about housing people on Guantanamo, that’s intimidation.
I am – it’s good the numbers are down. That’s a positive thing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: We need – we need a border security agreement. We need legislation. We also need immigration reform.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Talk about my state for a second. We’ve got a lot of dreamers. They deserve a pathway to citizenship. We need some – we need a plan for farm workers as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary of Defense Hegseth is sending another 3,000 troops to the border, including an aviation battalion and striker vehicles, CBS has confirmed. Now these soldiers aren’t allowed to intercept migrants. Do you understand the mission, the intent? You have oversight over armed services, so I wonder how you feel about this.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I don’t feel good about it. The way this should be handled is, if we could work together within the United States Senate, Democrats and Republicans, get the Border Patrol more money, hire more Border Patrol agents, give them more resources to do the job they’re supposed to do. When you do it with troops, that affects their readiness. This isn’t what they’re trained to do. Then they don’t get to train to do – that striker battalion doesn’t get to train to do the job that they need – may need to do one day.
I don’t want to see us in a conflict around the world anywhere. But what prevents that is for our allies to realize that they’re not going to win in a fight. And when they see us doing things like this, police actions with the military, that also is showing the rest of the world that our military is less capable and we are weaker. And that affects everybody’s safety.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Lastly, because you sit on the Intelligence Committee, I want to ask you about something President Zelenskyy said. He said in Munich, “Ukraine has intel the Russians are sending troops to Belarus to use it as a launch pad militarily into perhaps not just Ukraine but other European countries.”
Are you concerned about that?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, I am very concerned about what Putin will do next. If he – if he comes out of this and thinks he got a good deal and this was worth his time and effort and loss of life.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: He doesn’t care about Russian soldiers. He obviously doesn’t care about the Ukrainians. Yes, that would be very concerning for me.
I was in the Baltic nations, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania earlier this year. They are very concerned. That would be a staging ground for them to attack the Baltics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. That’s why we’re watching it so carefully.
Senator Kelly, I appreciate your insight.
We’re going to turn now to Michigan Congressman John James.
Good morning to you, Congressman.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES (R-MI): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about what’s happening in your state with the economy and tariffs, but just staying on the theme for a moment. I know you have a lot of Ukrainian Americans in your district. You voted in support of last year’s Ukraine supplemental. Are you comfortable with the Trump administration’s decision to stop recognizing that Russia started the war in Ukraine?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Russia is the aggressor. Putin is a war criminal. And Volodymyr Zelenskyy also fumbled the bag pretty hard. All those things can be true at the exact same time. We absolutely must stand by our allies at the exact same time. We also need to make sure that we are giving transparency and accountability to the American people.
Under the Biden administration, billions of dollars were given away with very little accountability and no mission – no end state. I’m a combat veteran, and my soldiers expected from me that I would be able to articulate objectives, a mission and an end state. And the commander in chief, last time, couldn’t do that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: President Trump is doing everything that he can to get a lasting peace, and enduring peace in eastern Europe and throughout the world. He’s already ended one war in the Middle East. I think we should give him a chance to end one in Europe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I think there’s developments on the Mid-East front that – that throw that into question, but we’ll keep tracking that.
Let me ask you about tariffs and Michigan because you are really in a unique spot in the middle of the auto state.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: This Tuesday, expect tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China. That’s what the president said. On March 12th, 25 percent tariffs on all imported steel and aluminum. Non-exceptions for trading partners. Auto tariffs in April. What is your district bracing for?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Look, America is open for business but we are not for sale. Michigan remembers what NAFTA did to us. And over the past 30 years, Mexico has built 11 major automotive plants to only one in the United States.
Michigan remembers 900,000 automotive jobs over – back in the ’90s to 600,000 now. That’s over 300,000 lost manufacturing jobs in the automotive sector. Michigan remembers the great recession where 50 percent of all the jobs lost in all of America were lost in Michigan alone. And Michigan remembers the harmful EV mandates that have forced compliance rather than actually allowing a regulatory environment that permits innovation. We’ve lost jobs to Mexico and China.
Right now in my district, as you mentioned, the number one manufacturing district in all the nation, overflow production is not going to Sterling Heights, it’s going to Saltillo, Mexico.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: When you look at the opportunities that are missing us, when you look at the fact that – that – that Michigan is seeing its opportunities pass by, enough is enough.
Margaret, the status quo is not good enough for Americans, which is why Donald Trump got elected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: He’s putting Americans first. And, frankly, even our allies have not been playing a fair game.
Look, fair – free trade is the objective but fair trade –
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, but I’m asking you about the specific – the –
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Fair –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, the specific –
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Right. Yes, OK, go ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tactic here because you – you brought up Sterling Heights. The Republican mayor of Sterling Heights, Michael Taylor, your district, says the president’s tariffs are the, quote, “single biggest threat to our local economy.” He’s expecting it to be devastating and staggering. This is a Republican saying this about the impact on your district. What’s he missing?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: The – what’s devastating and staggering is the fact of the matter that we have been taken advantage of for decades. The president, under his original tax plan, lowered corporate tax rates from 35 to 21 percent, and he’s offering lower tax rates to 15 percent for those who build in the United States of America. We’re also looking at energy independence. We’re also looking at lowering the regulatory burdens for folks to succeed and excel.
But what Democrats are doing is they’re going to actually make it more difficult when they vote against this – these tax reforms for small businesses to excel –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Republicans –
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: And for entrepreneurs to get their feet under them. And so, regardless of what it is, when you take a look at the EV policies that Joe Biden put in place, that actually exacerbated the inflation, just look at work trucks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Well –
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Work trucks five years ago were – are – were $15,000 less expensive than they are right now. SUVs, $8,000 less expensive than they are right now. That inflation was caused by terrible Democrat policies. And that – and that is – that –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you tell the mayor he’s wrong?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: What’s that?
MARGARET BRENNAN: The – so you’re telling the mayor he’s wrong? I mean the Ford – Ford’s CEO said at an investor conference last month, a 25 percent tariff would blow a hole in the U.S. industry that we have never seen.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Well, you know what, memory is kind of short because when you look at the OECD nations, they’re already talking about leveling 15 percent tax on anything in businesses that are making $750 million or more. Everybody should look at the impact that that makes on top of the tariffs that are already imposed on goods that are made in the United States of America. No one is talking about this, Margaret. And all these economists – we – we expect that these are going to be on (INAUDIBLE) but they’re not. We are not operating at – you know –
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s the CEO of Ford, the automaker.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: You can go talk to the CEO of Ford, but what I’m dealing with is people I’m talking with when I visit factory floors each and every single day. I am an automotive supplier in the United States of America and I feel this pain. We’ve seen it for too long.
And like I’ve said, we’ve been taken advantage of for years and we need to level the playing field. When you’re not playing fair with America, then we have to do what we can to make sure that we can compete on a fair playing field.
And, Margaret, I think that fairness is what we should be pursuing. And I don’t think that’s wrong to ask for out of our allies and our partners.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The global supply chain, I know you know it well, is complicated here. And the production goes back and forth across –
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Yes, I have a masters in it, Margaret. I understand it. And I’m also in the automotive industry.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Right.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: Yes, go ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And – well, what I’m trying to say is that the cars go back and forth across the border multiple times. So, what is the construction of the tariffs that you think is actually going to be beneficial here?
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: You know what also comes across the border? Fentanyl coming in from Mexico, and China sending in precursors. And as a result of these negotiation tactics, Mexico surged 10,000 of their own National Guard troops to the border. And just as you were mentioning in the – in the last segment, I think it was great that border apprehensions on the southern border have plunged to the lowest levels this century.
You know, this is working. Mexico is paying for the border security. They’re extraditing drug lords to be prosecuted in the United States of America. And these are the types of things that we’re – that we’re looking for. Eighty-four percent of those on the terror watch list, on the FBI terror watch list, are apprehended on the northern border. And we’re getting Canadian cooperation, which would have never happened under the previous administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: And only started when President Trump started playing hardball and talking about these things. We have a number of levers, diplomatic, economic and military.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: And diplomatic levers haven’t works. We’re using economic levels to secure our borders –
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Congressman.
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN JAMES: And to make sure that we have fairness across our economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, thank you. Congressman James, we’ve got to leave it there.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump’s approval rating in our poll is 51 percent, still in positive territory, but by a smaller margin than he had a month ago. And on his approval on the issues, it’s a mixed bag. A slim majority of voters approve of his handling of the border and the economy, while a slim majority disapprove of his handling of inflation.
And we’re joined now by our elections and surveys director, Anthony Salvanto.
You asked about a host of issues, Anthony, before this explosive Oval Office exchange. You did ask Americans how they’re assessing the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. What did you learn?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes, good morning, Margaret.
You know, you can look at Ukraine and Russia and the conflict, and then see a wider worldview that Americans have. So, let me start with this.
Aid to Ukraine specifically divides the country. It divides it along partisan lines. And it has for a while. Democrats more in favor, Republicans more opposed.
But then you ask people, OK, who do you support in the conflict? Just over half say they support Ukraine and the rest say they’re neutral, that the U.S. should stay out.
Now, where this comes back to the administration is, the people who say they’re neutral are more approving of how Donald Trump is handling all this. The people who say they back Ukraine, in addition to supporting aid, feel that Trump’s actions have favored Russia in this conflict.
Now, let’s take a look at views on Russia. And the big majority calls Russia either an enemy or unfriendly. It’s a little less so among Republicans. But then widen out to how the U.S. should act on the world stage. Views of our European allies. By and large, Americans call them allies or at the least friendlies, Great Britain, France, Germany, et cetera.
Now, what should the U.S. actually do? The big majority is, cooperate with allies on the world stage. Those folks tend to be less approving of the changes that they see Donald Trump making to U.S. foreign policy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, back to the – the key issue, the economy, how are Americans perceiving what the president is doing on that, as well as his cuts to the federal workforce?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, on the point about cuts, let’s start with this sort of central premise about, is there waste in the federal government? By and large Americans agree that there is. The difference is, where does it come from? If I ask people, is it poor spending choices? Is it fraud? Well, you get more Democrats saying, it probably comes from poor spending choices. Republicans saying it comes from fraud.
And then that goes into a split on the changes you’re making in the federal workforce. That divides the country. And you start to see people looking at and wondering about what the implications of this might be.
So, I ask, is this going to have an effect? There’s a lot of people who say, yes, it will have an effect on cutting services that they like, an effect on their local area. But there’s also just as many who say it’s going to save taxpayer money, it’s going to eliminate waste. And when I see that wide span of answers, what my sense is, is, people are anticipating a lot of things. They’re unsure at this point. But they are definitely looking and waiting to see what they believe will be an impact.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony Salvanto, thank you very much.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our Imtiaz Tyab reports on reaction from Kyiv.
(BEGIN VT)
IMTIAZ TYAB (voice over): President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s warm welcome at 10 Downing Street couldn’t have been more different than his reception at the White House.
REPORTER: What’s your message to the U.S. president?
IMTIAZ TYAB (voice over): He and U.K. Prime Minister Kier Starmer later signed $2.8 billion worth of loans to Ukraine, ahead of today’s summit of presidents and prime ministers from across Europe, convened by Starmer.
KIER STARMER (U.K. Prime Minister): European countries have to do more and provide a security guarantee. But I’ve always been clear that that is going to need a U.S. backstop.
IMTIAZ TYAB (voice over): Oleksander Merezhko is the chairman of the Ukrainian government’s foreign affairs committee.
OLEKSANDER MEREZHKO (Ukrainian Government’s Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman): The issue of Ukraine is a crucial key issue for European security. Let’s not forget that the final goal of Putin is not only destroying Ukraine but also dominating the whole Europe.
IMTIAZ TYAB (voice over): This spectacle of an American president and vice president berating the leader of a war-torn ally has left Ukrainians reeling and European leaders scrambling to respond. It has also triggered delight from the Kremlin.
OLEKSANDER MEREZHKO: And I thought that Mr. Trump can play the role of new FDR. Yes. But now we can see that we need to think about European role and Europe as a leader of the free world.
IMTIAZ TYAB: There’s obviously another player here. And that’s Russia. What do you think the mood in Moscow is right now?
OLEKSANDER MEREZHKO: I’m sure that they rejoice. Putin counted. He couldn’t imagine that something like that, that such a gift can happen. But now things have changed. And it emboldens him. He thinks that he’s right and he can destroy Ukraine. That’s why it’s so dangerous.
IMTIAZ TYAB: A dangerous war which shows no sign of letting up. Overnight there was another massive Russian drone attack in the eastern city of Zaporizhzhia that left a residential neighborhood devastated.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The free world needs a new leader said the EU’s top diplomat, Kaja Kallas, following that Oval Office meeting. We spoke with her Thursday about what Europeans are doing to help Ukraine.
(BEGIN VT)
KAJA KALLAS (VP, European Commission): We are coordinating. And – and, of course, the message is, there are several layers. One is that the fight that Ukraine is having is not only about Ukraine’s sovereignty, but it’s much, much broader. It’s about freedom of the free world really. It is about the world where international law applies. And – and the world where might does not make right. It is clear that Russia attacked Ukraine. There’s one aggressor and one victim.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the Trump administration has decided now not to say that explicitly, arguing that the president needs negotiating room. Do you think that that’s persuasive to Vladimir Putin?
KAJA KALLAS: Well, it is certainly, you know, a very strong Russian narrative that they want to run to really push – saying that, you know, oh, it’s a conflict between two equal parties. It is very clear, one country attacked another country very brutally with force and is – is bombing Ukraine every day. I mean President Trump says that he wants the killing to stop. I don’t think that anybody wants the killing to stop more than the Ukrainians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, why do you think acknowledging who is responsible does matter?
KAJA KALLAS: We have the United Nations charter where we have agreed how countries are, you know, interacting with each other. And it says very clearly that you can’t attack sovereign territorial integrity of another country. And if you do, there are consequences. And why is it important? It is important for small countries in the world, for whom this is the only thing that protects them. If we don’t really defend this principle, then we’re going to see all these developments that we don’t want to see because all the countries who are afraid of their neighbors will want to go for nuclear weapons because this is the only thing that protects them. It’s not the international law anymore.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today, until next week.
For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-full-transcript-03-02-2025/
