On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio
- 2024 Republican presidential hopeful and Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie
- Utah Gov. Spencer Cox and Colorado Gov. Jared Polis
- National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby
- Former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb
Click right here to browse full transcripts of “Fac the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: The U.S. steps up strain on Israel to do extra to guard civilians, because the pause to launch hostages ends and the Israeli offensive resumes.
The bombing in Gaza is again, as Israel continues its efforts to destroy Hamas. Despite Israeli leaders vowing to do all they’ll to maintain civilians out of the crossfire, the Biden administration says they should do extra.
(Begin VT)
KAMALA HARRIS (Vice President of the United States): Too many harmless Palestinians have been killed. As Israel defends itself, it issues how.
LLOYD AUSTIN (U.S. Secretary of Defense): The middle of gravity is the civilian inhabitants. And in case you drive them into the arms of the enemy, you change a tactical victory with a strategic defeat.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We may have the most recent on the battle and the efforts to free the remainder of the hostages.
Plus, we are going to speak with House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Turner about his considerations about our personal skill to assemble intelligence to forestall assaults right here within the U.S.
Plus: Six weeks out from the primary votes within the 2024 presidential contest, are the opposite contenders giving Trump a cross on his inflammatory assaults?
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the United States (R) and Current U.S. Presidential Candidate): Biden and his radical left allies wish to pose as defenders of democracy. Joe Biden is the destroyer of American democracy.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will speak to GOP candidate and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. He says he is making an attempt to carry Trump accountable. But is anybody listening?
Former FDA head Dr. Scott Gottlieb is again to speak in regards to the spike in respiratory diseases amongst kids.
Finally, we are saying goodbye to 3 exceptional public servants, and Washington breathes a sigh of reduction on the departure of 1 whose public service was something however distinguished.
It’s all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We have so much to get to right now, however we start with our Chris Livesay reporting from Jerusalem.
(Begin VT)
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice-over): With the cease-fire in shambles, Israeli Defense Forces are as soon as once more pushing to annihilate Hamas, pushing south, warning residents to flee town of Khan Yunis, a suspected Hamas command middle, but in addition residence to Hani Abu Tayyima (sp?).
(HANI ABU TAYYIMA SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHRIS LIVESAY: “I will never see my friends again,” she says. “I can only play with sand, instead of toys. It’s hard for us to get food and water here, and a lot of my friends are dead.”
At the Shuhada Al-Aqsa Hospital, girls and kids scramble for therapy and shelter. Israel has sworn to reduce the lack of civilian life, even to stick with negotiations, however beneath hearth.
(PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHRIS LIVESAY: “We will continue the war until we achieve all its goals,” vows Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. “That’s impossible without the ground operation,” a floor operation that offers Israel leverage, he insists, to free the remaining 130 hostages, together with eight Americans, who stay within the clutches of Hamas.
Now, for the primary time, lots of these freed describe their torment intimately, determined for meals and air in Hamas’ tunnels.
(DANIELLE ALONI SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHRIS LIVESAY: “Our girls have seen things that kids should not see, a horror film,” remembers Danielle Aloni. We simply slept and cried. Every day that handed was an eternity,” a horror film that terrified their families at home as well, says Hadas Calderon.
(HADAS CALDERON SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
CHRIS LIVESAY: “The first sentence they mentioned to me once we met was: ‘Mommy, you are alive. Mommy, we did not know you had been alive.'”
(End VT)
CHRIS LIVESAY: This weekend, Israeli intelligence despatched a crew to Qatar to proceed negotiations.
But, Margaret, that very same crew circled simply hours later, saying Hamas wasn’t dwelling as much as its finish of the discount, which included the discharge of all girls and kids.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s Chris Livesay in Jerusalem.
And we’re joined now by the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Congressman Mike Turner.
Good morning. Good to have you ever right here.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL TURNER (R-Ohio): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, our colleagues right here at CBS have heard from extra Israeli troopers, primarily feminine, saying that they’d reported up the chain of command warnings a few potential Hamas assault.
“The New York Times,” the “F.T.,” they’ve particulars, particular ones, going again a 12 months. The White House says this wasn’t shared with U.S. intelligence. If that is America’s closest Mideast ally, ought to that concern us?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I believe what you noticed was only a basic dismissal by Israel and Israel’s intelligence group of the opportunity of this degree of a menace, which actually goes to the entire breakdown that occurred right here.
It’s been superb to have our intelligence group now working carefully with the Israeli intelligence group and see the gaps that they’ve. And this clearly might have been an institutional bias that resulted in them dismissing it.
But the opposite facet that made this so harmful is that, even when October 7 started to unfold, their forces did not react. They did not have the deployment skill to reply, not simply the intelligence skill to forestall it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Which raises questions now about, have these gaps been stuffed? How can you are taking Israeli assurances that every little thing they’re doing is exact and focused and precise?
Does the United States know the place Yahya Sinwar, the commander who was the architect of this, is? Israel says that he is in South Gaza.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, actually, the United States is helping within the location of Hamas management as Israel strikes to eradicate the specter of Hamas.
And I simply obtained a briefing from CIA Director Burns on Friday, who simply got here again from the Middle East. He’s been working diligently. He’s doing a fantastic job on negotiating for the discharge of hostages and likewise in making an attempt to make sure that our intelligence equipment is working carefully with Israel to attempt to fill a few of these gaps that they clearly have.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
When it involves what the United States is doing for our personal requirements, for our personal authorities, we’ve got to have a virtually sure normal with regards to counterterrorism deadly operations, optimistic I.D. of the goal, no civilian casualties.
Should we maintain our allies who we offer with weapons and intelligence to that very same normal?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I can let you know that we’re being selective as to the data that is being supplied.
It’s one factor to have the ability to look, to attempt to establish a selected particular person and supply info as to their location and operations and truly directing an operation. I imply, Director Burns has been very clear that we’re not simply offering direct entry to our intelligence, and that actually provides us the power to have warning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is Israel, although, working on that intelligence to the extent, to the usual that they need to, that the United States holds itself to?
Because we simply heard from the protection secretary and the vp that it actually sounds that the U.S. evaluation is they are not.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: With respect to make use of of U.S. intelligence, I can let you know that that is actually how the United States is working and holding them to that normal.
Now, broadly, as you may have reported, the United States could be very involved, to the extent that Israel shouldn’t be doing sufficient to guard civilians. And, actually, the problem goes even broader to the problem of humanitarian help being supplied to the Palestinians, who’re equally prisoners of Hamas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
Can help, which is being bundled within the Senate with Ukraine help, to Israel and Ukraine get by means of the Republican-controlled House if the stipulation, as I perceive it from the speaker of the House, is that it has to additionally embody provisions relating to the U.S. border?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Sure.
Speaker Johnson is doing a fantastic job, and he’s immediately negotiating each with the White House and with the Senate on the help package deal, which would come with help to Israel, help to Ukraine, and likewise Southeast Asia.
But, extra importantly, within the negotiation course of, it will embody adjustments in our Southern border coverage, which even Director Wray has recognized as a nationwide safety menace. Those negotiations are ongoing.
And it will take the administration coming to the desk and recognizing that their coverage wants to vary. America overwhelmingly needs the Southern border addressed. It represents a nationwide safety menace, as his personal safety advisers are telling him.
You know, we will not have thousands and thousands of individuals proceed to cross our border and in any respect consider that we’ve got a safe nation with our nationwide safety.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So – however what is the particular on that? Because the White House is asking for like $14 billion. Are you saying the cash shouldn’t be sufficient? You need an overhaul of immigration coverage that hasn’t occurred in many years, and for that to occur within the subsequent three weeks?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, really, there have been issues that occurred in many years.
If you look again on the Trump administration, the place they’d positions that – insurance policies resembling stay in Mexico, there have been insurance policies that had been working that had been retaining the Southern border managed, the place the variety of individuals…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that is a selected ask now?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And that may be a particular ask now – the place the variety of individuals crossing is diminished.
The administration could make adjustments which different administrations have enforced that – that change the distinction. It’s the reversal of these insurance policies which have precipitated Biden’s Southern border insurance policies to be a failure and the thousands and thousands of individuals to have entered our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I wish to ask you one thing else that Congress, I do know you suppose, must get carried out in a really quick time period, and that’s reauthorizing Section 702.
We talked about it there as immediately associated to America’s personal terror menace and having the ability to have warrantless surveillance powers.
Mark Warner, your colleague over within the Senate, says the primary problem to getting this carried out, your Ohio Republican colleague Jim Jordan, who he says needs to take the FBI out of the method. So, are you able to get Jordan and the Freedom Caucus, of which your speaker is a member, on board with this?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I believe so; 702 is one among our most vital instruments for monitoring overseas people situated exterior the United States who pose a nationwide safety menace to our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it is about to run out.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And it is about to run out on the finish of the 12 months.
It doesn’t monitor United States residents. I believe there are those that have a look at the habits of the FBI and wish to punish the FBI, foolishly, by reducing off one among our most vital instruments to focus on at overseas people. It actually can be one among our most vital instruments that we’re utilizing to assist Israel on this battle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How’s that?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: It permits us to watch overseas – by means of this program, we monitor Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS.
Some of our most, you recognize, ardent adversaries are monitored on this program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And, actually, we should not punish the FBI for what they’ve carried out in different areas to hinder our skill to trace terrorists and our adversaries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Has Speaker Johnson dedicated to taking this model that the Intelligence chairs are proposing, versus Jim Jordan’s model that wishes to take the FBI out of this?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Right.
So we’ve got a invoice. Myself, Jim Himes, Darin LaHood, Brian Fitzpatrick, Senator Warner, Senator Rubio, and Senator Cornyn have a bipartisan, bicameral invoice that might handle a few of the previous abuses of the FBI, stop them sooner or later, and likewise reauthorize 702. The speaker could be very supportive of that. We’ve simply acquired to get it over the road.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How? What do you connect it to?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, and that is the issue, as a result of – so, I do suppose we have got substance on our facet…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: … that that is the best way to go.
The people who wish to hinder this course of, actually, I believe, totally do not totally perceive how the method works, and are – are actually not understanding the – the worth and the significance of this to our nationwide safety.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But then what we do see is Speaker Johnson saying yesterday on FOX he’ll maintain a vote on the impeachment inquiry into President Biden.
You’re speaking about one thing of quick nationwide safety menace, immediacy in timing, needing to prioritize that.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Exactly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But we’ll have an impeachment inquiry vote as an alternative?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: You know, sadly, that is a few of the legacy of the chaos that has occurred in Congress, the place the – those that wished to close down the federal government on the finish of summer time are a few of those who wish to cease the reauthorization of 702, wrongly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to vote for this impeachment inquiry subsequent week?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: We’ll need to see what the proof and the – and the data is. And we – it has not but been offered to us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that basically the highest precedence, although?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: You know, you may have a couple of precedence.
Certainly, I believe defending and implementing our legal guidelines is a precedence. But, on this, 702 is crucial. It must be reformed and reauthorized. And the speaker is actually dedicated to each these targets.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, it is all the time good to have you ever right here in particular person, Mike Turner.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And developing afterward on this program:
(Begin VT)
GOVERNOR JARED POLIS (D-Colorado): There’s a wholesome method to take care of conflicting opinions. Actually, it is OK to disagree.
GOVERNOR SPENCER COX (R-Utah): It’s not simply OK. It’s essential.
GOVERNOR JARED POLIS: Did you simply disagree with me about disagreeing?
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Colorado Democrat Jared Polis and Utah Republican Spencer Cox, two governors making an attempt to get individuals to disagree higher, they’ll inform us how to try this once we come again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re again with the coordinator for strategic communications on the White House National Security Council, John Kirby.
Always good to have you ever right here.
JOHN KIRBY (NSC Coordinator For Strategic Communications): Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I wish to ask you about this breakdown within the hostage negotiations.
JOHN KIRBY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Mossad has pulled their negotiators out of Doha, saying that there isn’t any use in persevering with to speak.
Is this insurmountable? There are nonetheless Americans being held.
JOHN KIRBY: We do not consider it is insurmountable.
In truth, even whereas the negotiations have stopped, Margaret, we have not stopped our efforts on the National Security Council and in accordance – and all the best way as much as the president, making an attempt to work hour by hour to see if we will get this pause reinstated and get these hostages out.
I’ll say, whereas the pause has been lifted and no hostage exchanges are happening, what remains to be happening, importantly, is humanitarian help getting in, together with – together with gas, which is – which could be very crucial.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It wasn’t. It’s restarted, you are saying?
JOHN KIRBY: So, even – sure. So, even when the pause ended, what did not finish was humanitarian help.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We heard out of your previous boss, the protection secretary, Lloyd Austin there…
JOHN KIRBY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … at first of this system, and he mentioned that the lesson he realized from the ISIS marketing campaign was that, in city warfare, you must defend civilians.
He was fairly sharp in his phrases. He mentioned he has pushed Israeli leaders to keep away from civilian casualties, shun irresponsible rhetoric, stop violence by settlers within the West Bank.
It actually sounds just like the Netanyahu authorities has not made the adjustments that they’ve been requested to make for the previous few weeks.
JOHN KIRBY: They have been receptive to these messages. Those messages that he delivered in public, we’re additionally delivering in personal. They have been…
MARGARET BRENNAN: For three weeks or extra now, together with on this program.
JOHN KIRBY: They have been receptive to these messages.
Now, once more, I wish to make it clear. The proper variety of civilian casualties is zero. And, clearly, many 1000’s have been killed, and lots of extra 1000’s have been wounded, and now greater than one million are internally displaced. We are conscious of that, and we all know that each one of that may be a tragedy.
We grieve with all these households. That is why we proceed to work, as Secretary Austin mentioned, with our Israeli counterparts to get them to be as cautious and as exact and as deliberate of their focusing on as potential.
And I might let you know, as I mentioned, they’ve been receptive. They went into North Gaza with a a lot smaller power than what they’d initially deliberate to do. And right here you may have within the final…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because the United States slowed down these operations?
JOHN KIRBY: And when you have – within the final 24 hours, they’ve been placing a map on-line of locations the place individuals in Gaza must keep away from and must go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They haven’t got connectivity broadly in Gaza. You know that.
JOHN KIRBY: But – effectively, they’ve additionally been doing it with paper and leaflets and that type of factor.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
JOHN KIRBY: My level is, Margaret, that it is very uncommon for a contemporary army to take these sorts of steps, principally telegraphing their punches, earlier than they really conduct operations.
So I believe they’re listening. I believe they’re receptive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you are persevering with to ship this message at fairly excessive ranges, together with the vp is saying this.
JOHN KIRBY: Of course.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That quantity you say, 1000’s, the Gaza Ministry of Health says it is over 15,000 individuals who have been killed since October 7.
Does the U.S. have – U.S. has – have an evaluation of civilians?
JOHN KIRBY: We haven’t got a selected quantity that we will converse to, however we all know many, many 1000’s have been – have been killed.
And, once more, many, many 1000’s extra have been wounded, however we do not have a precise determine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Hamas, when it attacked so brutally on October 7, you had been very robust. You mirrored the president’s emotion on this, his protection of the Netanyahu authorities.
JOHN KIRBY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Senator Van Hollen, who was on this program just lately, faulted you. I would like you to take heed to it.
(Begin VT)
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-Maryland): Many of us had been involved only a few weeks in the past when one of many White House nationwide safety spokesperson was requested if the United States has any crimson strains…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: And the reply was no, which suggests something goes. And – and that can not be in keeping with American pursuits and American values.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He’s speaking about what you mentioned October 24 from the rostrum. That’s a Democrat saying they want clear language from the White House.
JOHN KIRBY: Look, every little thing that we do for a overseas army, together with Israel, once you give them safety help, there are expectations with that safety help that it is going for use in step with the regulation of armed battle, the regulation of struggle.
And we’re in fixed contact with our Israeli counterparts about the best way that they are prosecuting these operations. Secretary Blinken has mentioned himself, it is not simply what you try this issues, it is the way you try this issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But are there crimson strains?
JOHN KIRBY: We consider that the strategy that we’ve got been taking, Margaret, has had an impact.
It has allowed Israel to proceed to go after a really viable terrorist menace to their existence and on the identical time…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you are correcting, making an attempt to appropriate course.
Are there crimson strains? Because what we’re seeing proper now, as “The Journal” was simply reporting, I imply, bunker-buster bombs, 2,000-pound bombs being handed over. The United States is a very robust supporter of Israel right here.
JOHN KIRBY: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Should there be brighter strains?
JOHN KIRBY: We are having these discussions with our Israeli counterparts on daily basis about being cautious, exact and deliberate of their focusing on and making an attempt to reduce civilian casualties to the utmost extent potential.
I believe it is also vital for individuals to recollect what they’re up in opposition to right here. Hamas intentionally shelters themselves inside residential buildings, hospitals and faculties…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
JOHN KIRBY: … principally on function, placing civilians within the line of fireplace. And what Israel’s making an attempt to do is get them out of the road of fireplace.
So, it is an added burden that Israel has, as a contemporary army. And we acknowledge that. But it is also a really troublesome burden and impediment for them to beat.
So look, we’re – we do not wish to see a single extra harmless life taken right here, however – and so we’ll proceed to work with – with Israel about this. But the strategy that we have been taking has delivered some outcomes, together with greater than 100 hostages getting out.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, however you perceive the implications for U.S. nationwide safety to be seen as endorsing all of this, which is what Van Hollen was elevating.
But I wish to ask you about Venezuela as effectively earlier than I allow you to go. The U.S. lifted some sanctions off the Maduro regime…
JOHN KIRBY: Some.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … and set some targets.
November 30, there have been purported to be three Americans who’re decided to be wrongfully detained launched. That did not occur.
JOHN KIRBY: No, it did not.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN KIRBY: Nor did the discharge of different political prisoners.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Exactly. So what occurs now? Will you place extra sanctions on? What is the standing of these Americans?
JOHN KIRBY: I do not wish to get forward of the place we’re within the decision- making course of, however we’re reviewing our choices proper now.
They – they’d till the night of the thirtieth to – to make these varieties of selections. Unfortunately, they did not. And so we’re now going again to – to the – to coverage choices and reviewing what our chances are high. But I do not wish to get forward…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Including snapback sanctions?
JOHN KIRBY: Again, I do not wish to get forward of the place we’re, however we had been extraordinarily involved that they did not take these two additional steps, launch of political prisoners and getting our wrongfully detained Americans residence.
That’s one thing we take very significantly, getting these of us residence, and we’ll maintain at it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, Admiral, thanks for being right here in particular person.
JOHN KIRBY: Good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the previous Governor of New Jersey and 2024 Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie.
Good to have you ever again on this system.
We know, sir, the RNC is meant to announce tomorrow who shall be on that December 6 debate stage. Has the RNC instructed you you’ve got certified to be there? And, if you have not, will you drop out?
FORMER GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-New Jersey) (Presidential Candidate): I do not suppose they’ve instructed anyone but who all of us are going to be on the stage, however I’m assured, Margaret, that I shall be there and that we’ve got all of the {qualifications} essential to get there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You – since you instructed CNN over Thanksgiving you’ll keep within the race by means of the conference, which might put you into the summer time months.
Does the sphere must consolidate to beat Donald Trump, which you say is one among your prime motivations in operating?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Look, this area has already consolidated greater than any non-incumbent area on this century, Margaret.
Back this time eight years in the past, we had 13 candidates nonetheless within the race. At this time again, you recognize, in 2011, we had eight candidates within the race. And right now again in 2007, we had 9 candidates within the race.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: And so this – this area has consolidated considerably. And I think it’s going to consolidate extra after of us vote in Iowa and New Hampshire.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But is not it a little bit bit totally different that you’ve got the forty fifth president of the United States operating, a identified entity, who has this computerized platform?
It’s – it is only a totally different mannequin. It’s a special case.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Yes, it – the opposite factor that makes it totally different, Margaret, is, he is acquired 91 counts of indictment in opposition to him.
The day earlier than Super Tuesday, he’ll begin a prison trial, the place his former chief of employees and one of many founders of the Freedom Caucus goes to testify that he dedicated crimes on his watch and was directed to commit crimes by Donald Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: There’s loads of issues totally different about this.
And that is why anyone tried to foretell that is simply taking pictures at the hours of darkness.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But why do not – why hasn’t that turned off the GOP citizens?
When you have a look at CBS polling and others, he’s main, as you recognize. And then, I imply, you’ve got made clear, when a few of the different rivals are utilizing actually harsh rhetoric, that you simply suppose that ought to disqualify them.
Why hasn’t that excessive rhetoric turned the GOP off of those different candidates both?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Well, look, I – first off, I do not suppose you recognize precisely what is going on to occur in any respect till individuals vote.
Look, if we listened to all of the polling, Margaret, Hillary Clinton could be in her second time period. So I do not consider that polling is almost as dependable because it was once. And I do not consider that individuals inform the reality to pollsters.
And so, on the finish of the day, everyone who’s making an attempt to make these selections now are simply fallacious. Let’s keep in mind one thing. In this – within the Republican major in ’07, have you learnt who was profitable right now in ’07? Mitt Romney.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: You know who was profitable right now in ’11? Newt Gingrich. And profitable this time in ’15 was Ben Carson. I do not keep in mind any of these presidencies, Margaret.
So, you recognize, my view, we will not fear about that type of stuff. What we have to fear about is the course this nation goes in. And most individuals do not agree with it. And in case you do not agree with the course of the nation, why would you vote for both Trump or Biden, who’ve put us on this course?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
Well, I’ve much more to speak to you about, together with on the problems and the issues that we all know from our personal polling voters wish to hear from candidates such as you.
So I’m going to ask you to stay with us, as a result of I do need to take a business break.
And we’ll have extra questions on the opposite facet of it.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We shall be proper again with much more Face the Nation and extra with former Governor of New Jersey Chris Christie, plus Dr. Scott Gottlieb on the growing variety of respiratory diseases amongst kids.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
And we’ve got extra now from former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, candidate for the Republican nomination.
Sir, I wish to decide up the place we left off. You know, we hear from political pundits on a regular basis, oh, Americans simply do not care about nationwide safety with regards to how they vote, however you had been the one candidate who has gone to each Israel and Ukraine throughout this marketing campaign, a minimum of just one nonetheless standing. Why was it vital so that you can go?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Because I believe if you wish to be president of the United States you must see this stuff for your self. You cannot rely on stories from pundits or the press or from other people in public life. You’ve acquired to see it for your self.
And I’ll let you know, once I went to Israel, Margaret, simply a few weeks in the past, the inhumanity I noticed that Hamas rained upon the Jewish individuals in Israel. I went into one residence of a 24-year-old couple just lately married, each had been murdered of their small three-room residence. And there have been 140 bullet holes within the partitions to kill two individuals, Margaret. It’s not simply the inhumanity that Hamas executes, it is the enjoyment they absorb that inhumanity. And that is why Israel has to do what they should do to eradicate the army menace. And I believe I – I might not have utterly understood it and could not be an efficient president if I did not see it for myself.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll see if a few of the different candidates go.
One of the issues that I additionally wish to decide up on that we see voters responding to up to now is abortion. You know it has been a galvanizing problem in favor of Democrats. We’ve seen that a couple of occasions now. Are you involved that in a head-to-head that that can assist to buoy the president himself as he runs for re-election, and the way does a Republican candidate like your self take the problem to the nationwide stage when the message for many years has been it is a state problem?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Look, I – Margaret, I’ve been constant on this. I consider the conservative, sensible strategy is to let the states make these selections. And that is what I believe they need to do. And that is why I mentioned I would not signal a six-week nationwide abortion ban as Governor DeSantis, and now only in the near past in Iowa Governor Haley has mentioned she would signal a six-week ban. I do not suppose you may say one factor in a single place and one thing else in one other. You must be constant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: For 50 years Republicans have argued that the Supreme Court took this choice away from the individuals. I believe this belongs within the arms of the individuals of every particular person state. We see a fantastic democratic, small “d,” occasion happening proper now throughout the nation in locations like Michigan and Kansas and Ohio, the place persons are voting. Let’s let the American individuals vote of their particular person states and determine what they need this coverage to be.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So higher for the occasion to not have a nationwide coverage basically is what you are saying?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: I consider that is – I consider that is true.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: I consider that is what the Constitution guides us to do. And that is the place we should always keep. And that is the place I’ve been.
And I’m involved, fairly frankly, Margaret, that, you recognize, candidates on this race have been everywhere in the block on this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: And – and it is not proper. People should have a straight reply from you. And that is my straight reply.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, additionally giving a reasonably straight evaluation is Liz Cheney, the previous congresswoman who simply did an interview with my colleague John Dickerson and instructed him, the United States is sleepwalking right into a dictatorship.
Bob Kagan, a author within the New York – in “The Washington Post” had an op- ed saying after tremendous Tuesday in March, Donald Trump would be the Republican nominee and what “happens there will be a swift and dramatic shift in the political power dynamic, in his favor,” saying all Republican critics, maybe even your self, will fall silent out of self-preservation.
Is that the way you see your occasion behaving after March?
CHRIS CHRISTIE: Look, I am unable to converse for everybody in my occasion. I can solely converse for myself, Margaret. And anyone who is aware of me is aware of I cannot be silent. I have not been silent for the reason that day I acquired into this race.
And, the truth is, in contrast to others, you recognize, Nikki Haley says he was the precise president for the precise time and that for some motive, you recognize, drama and chaos appear to observe him. The motive is that he acts like somebody who does not care about our democracy, acts like somebody who needs to be a dictator. He act the like somebody who does not look after the Constitution. In truth, he is even mentioned himself he’d be prepared to droop the Constitution if an election wasn’t getting into his course.
Margaret, I used to be the one one on that stage going again to August once I – once we had been requested, would you assist somebody who, you recognize, was convicted of a felony for president of the United States. I – Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, all of them raised their hand. I didn’t. And I believe I’ve made it very, very clear how I really feel about this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS CHRISTIE: And if of us desire a return to some decency and civility, why would you ever vote for Donald Trump?
MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper, Chris Christie, we’ll watch. Thanks on your time.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the co-chairs of the National Governors Association, Utah’s Spencer Cox and Colorado’s Jared Polis, and their Disagree Better Initiative, which is an effort to encourage civil dialog amongst American leaders.
Good morning to you each.
GOV. SPENCER COX (R-UT): Good morning, Margaret.
GOV. JARED POLIS (D-CO): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we like making an attempt to – we like making an attempt to deliver civility again to politics, though I’ve to say, loads of what’s taking place on this planet makes that difficult I believe at occasions for individuals.
And a kind of issues, I wish to dive proper into first with you, Governor Cox, and that’s that – the battle within the Middle East proper now has infected tensions on this nation, arguments and we’re seeing it usually play out on school campuses, for instance. I do know you instructed state faculties in Utah to stay impartial and cease commenting on present occasions. You mentioned, “I don’t care what your position is on Israel and Palestine, I don’t care what your position is on Roe versus Wade, we don’t need our institution to take a position on those things.” That simply feels like agreeing to not disagree in any respect.
SPENCER COX: No, no, it is the precise reverse. In truth, in case you have a look at what we really put out that was voted on unanimously by the board of upper ed in our state, the establishments themselves must be impartial in order that we will have these disagreements. We need really extra disagreement on campus. There’s a greater means to try this. We can disagree with out tearing one another aside.
That was a part of a free speech initiative that we’re engaged on on this state. We need extra college students on campus to interact in such a dialog. We need extra politics on campus. What’s taking place, sadly, throughout the United States is, too lots of our universities haven’t adopted the Chicago ideas that had been put out a few years in the past. They – they arrive out with very robust statements which are very political statements and find yourself silencing dissent or disagreement on campuses.
We need campuses to be a spot of sturdy dialogue. It’s the way it was once I was rising up. I believe all of us had these fantastic experiences. And we would like much less cancel tradition on campus.
So, free speech implies that you must permit for different individuals to disagree, even when these are very unpopular opinions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor Polis, is that the way you deal with issues in Colorado round this problem?
JARED POLIS: Yes. Well, look, the opposite – the opposite a part of that, the second half is, it doesn’t matter what your beliefs, you need to be protected. Whether it is in a campus, whether or not it is in a metropolis, no matter the way you categorical your opinion, you should not be afraid to stroll from one facet of campus to a different carrying a Jewish star round your neck, or in case you occur to be a Muslim American. So, there’s an affirmative accountability that in fact our universities have, but in addition our cities and others.
For occasion, we simply had a significant Jewish convention, Jewish nationwide fund in Denver. A serious efforts, metropolis of Denver, the state, to maintain the conferees protected. And there was additionally room for individuals to show. And they had been capable of categorical their free speech. And nobody was injured. And hopefully it led to some conversations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But some would argue that there’s a ethical crucial to talk out. You know, within the school city of Burlington, Vermont, we noticed these three younger males brutally shot. One could not stroll once more. Palestinian Americans. We’ve seen the spike in anti-Semitism effectively earlier than October seventh, however much more so it looks as if an deluge afterwards.
So, how do you stability that in your messaging to the heads of the colleges in your state?
SPENCER COX: Yes, I believe it is crucial. And what Governor Polis mentioned is precisely that, it’s about retaining individuals protected. What – you simply gave an instance the place – the place that didn’t occur. We completely ought to converse out about defending and retaining individuals protected on our campuses. That’s very totally different, Margaret, than – than taking a place on a political problem, which is going on everywhere in the nation. And it is ridiculous what is going on on our campuses with regards to that. You noticed it on a regular basis, the truth is. You noticed college presidents that had been very keen to talk out on all the problems of the day so long as they had been leaning one political course. But then as quickly as Israel and Hamas occurs, there was silence throughout campuses as a result of, effectively, if we converse out in assist of Israel, then we would offend, you recognize, a really vocal a part of our campus.
That’s embarrassing. And it should not occur. It’s higher that the establishments themselves keep impartial on these.
And, look, this isn’t new.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SPENCER COX: This is a long-time factor on our campuses that must be taking place to guard our college students in order that they’ll have these sturdy debates. We need this debate to be taking place on our campuses.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, two pro-Israel teams, the Anti-Defamation League and the Brandeis Center wrote 200 totally different college presidents asking them to research a gaggle known as Students for Justice in Palestine, arguing it is rhetorical assist for Hamas. And Governor DeSantis, of the state of Florida, ordered the removing of assist in state universities. That’s triggered an ACLU lawsuit.
Governor Polis, what are your ideas on that?
JARED POLIS: So, Margaret, thanks, by the best way, for drilling in on one of the crucial divisive subjects we face right now, as a result of we will disagree higher about Israel and Palestinian, we will disagree higher about every little thing. And this can be a nice instance and lens to view it by means of.
Part of what the objective is, is to get individuals to cease shouting at each other. Whatever the problem is. Whether it is – whether or not it is abortion, whether or not it is Israel/Palestinian, whether or not it is the border and immigration, cease shouting, begin speaking and listening. And that is the identical with this problem, proper?
So, there are lots of people shouting at each other. Now, that is their proper. As lengthy as they do not interact in violence or intimidation, that is their proper. But I believe everyone can have a extra productive dialog if we attempt to get in the identical room.
What is a post-October sixth Gaza seems to be like? Who governors it? How can we’ve got safety commitments to the Palestinian individuals, the Israeli individuals. I believe nearly everyone who’s pro-Israeli cares deeply in regards to the Palestinian individuals. A overwhelming majority of individuals which are pro-independent Palestine do consider that there must be a Jewish state and the Jews have some position of being in Israel. So, how do we’ve got these conversations somewhat than shouting previous each other over what is completely one of the crucial divisive problems with our time, each on campuses and within the broader group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll see the place that particular lawsuit goes.
On – you introduced up the border. That’s actually additionally – I’m difficult the premise and I would like – I would like extra civility, however inform me how you can do it on a few of these issues as a result of I do know the president was simply in Colorado this previous week. You are involved in your state in regards to the spike in migration. I perceive you may have additionally bussed migrants to some cities in New York and Chicago, which earned you some harshly worded letters from these mayors there.
How is that totally different from what Governor Abbott was doing in Texas? And how do you get alongside higher together with your fellow governors on this one?
JARED POLIS: Yes, once more, pleased to debate it on coverage. Our position in Colorado was serving to individuals get the place they need go. We’re simply north of Texas. People come up by means of and, clearly, we’re not going to detain them in Colorado. We’ve had about 2,000 or 3,000 Venezuelan refugees which have settled in our state. We’ve had tens of 1000’s which have moved on to – to the place they are going.
But, once more, I believe you begin with, how do we’ve got a dialog about higher safety on the border? Democrats need that. Republicans need that. President Biden has proposed it. I hope that Congress acts and truly funds higher border safety.
Now, the flip facet is, it is not straightforward. It’s not a sound chew. It’s not a flashy wall.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
JARED POLIS: It’s a considerate, high-tech strategy to frame safety, asylum reforms and immigration reform typically. There’s loads of frequent floor.
In truth, with Governor Cox we have been capable of efficiently begin by means of the National Governor’s Association an immigration job power of governors, six Democrats, six Republicans. We are agreeing on ideas round border safety and immigration reform that can hopefully serve for example for Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor Cox, shortly, has – have you ever acquired a response to a few of these proposals from Congress?
SPENCER COX: Yes, we’ll be placing these out shortly, placing these out publicly. But that is – that is the right instance. Again, a really divisive problem. We put Republicans and Democrats in a room collectively and we begin hashing it out. It does not – this isn’t about agreeing on every little thing, it is not about being nicer to one another, though we actually want that, it truly is about disagreeing if productive methods and discovering be frequent floor.
We discovered an immense quantity of frequent floor. We’re nonetheless working by means of a few of the – a few of the particulars, however it’s getting very shut.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll look ahead to that.
Governors, thanks for arguing higher. We recognize it.
SPENCER COX: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The CDC introduced Friday the variety of respiratory sickness circumstances is growing throughout most areas of the nation. That’s RSV, Covid, flu. So, we go now to former FDA commissioner, and Pfizer board member, Dr. Scott Gottlieb.
Dr. Gottlieb, thanks for coming again.
What ought to we be bracing for this season?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Yes, we’re most likely a extra typical winter pathogen season than what we have seen in previous years. There was a really dense epidemic of respiratory syncytial virus, as you famous on the high, within the south. That’s now abating. We’re seeing it unfold to the northeast proper now and different elements of the nation. That’s an an infection that impacts little kids notably arduous and older adults. Thankfully, there’s some remedies out there and a few methods to guard infants that individuals can reap the benefits of this 12 months.
With respect to flu, flu has began later than it did final 12 months. It’s predominantly flu a. The vaccine does seem to cowl it effectively. And the vaccination charges have been fairly good this 12 months, about 38 p.c of adults and kids have been vaccinated for flu. There’s no motive to consider that we’ll have a worse flu season than what we have seen in previous years and possibly hopefully lower than what we noticed final 12 months the place we noticed a really dense and early epidemic of flu.
With Covid, circumstances proper now are lower than what they had been final 12 months at this level of time. We’re averaging about 600,000 circumstances day primarily based on some modeling work that has been carried out off of waste water. And the predominant pressure that is growing in prevalence is the Ba.2.86 pressure, the one we talked about a few months in the past that unfold by means of elements of Europe. And a selected variant of that known as JN.1 (ph) that does seem to unfold extra simply. There’s no motive to consider that it is extra harmful than earlier strains of Covid. And individuals who have been vaccinated with the brand new variant vaccine or who had a current Covid an infection ought to have some safety in opposition to this new variant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But we have seen these clusters of this uncommon pneumonia within the state of Ohio. There’s some stories in Massachusetts. In Ohio, 145 circumstances in kids ages three to 14 years.
What’s making these youngsters sick in these clusters?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, when CDC has regarded inside these clusters, what they’re seeing is typical pathogens. So, adenovirus, strep, pneumonia and mycoplasma pneumonia. And mycoplasma pneumonia is the one which lots of people have their eye on. It precipitated very dense outbreaks in elements of Europe. It’s additionally what’s accountable partly for the outbreak that we noticed in China affecting kids. It’s a identified micro organism that’s epidemic each three to 5 years. So, we have seen epidemics of this previously. We have not seen an epidemic wave since Covid first broke out. So, in some respects, we’re due for it. Quite a lot of kids haven’t got immunity to it. They have not – they have not skilled a mycoplasma pneumonia an infection.
For most individuals it is a gentle sickness. It’s self-limiting, however it may well trigger a continual cough and it’s essential be alert for it. Some kids will get into bother with it. They will turn into extra sick. They’ll develop fevers, rashes, a persistent cough, and medical doctors must be alert as a result of the standard antibiotics that we use to deal with normal strains of pneumonia do not work with mycoplasma. You want explicit varieties of medicine known as macrolides. Drugs like azithromycin or clarithromycin, that are each out there as generic medication. So, medical doctors must be searching for it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Parents are taking notes on that one.
You talked about China. There had been, together with me, Republican senators, together with Marco Rubio, despatched a letter this week. And he is, you recognize, rating on Intelligence Committee, somebody who when he speaks individuals take heed to. He says, “a ban on travel could save our country from death, lockdowns, mandates and further outbreaks.” Is that applicable?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, look, I believe proper now we’ve got extra details about what’s spreading in China. And it does look like extra normal strains of sickness. So, there isn’t any motive to consider that there is one thing novel spreading there.
I believe on the outset of that outbreak in China, when the stories first surfaced, we did not have loads of info. The World Health Organization expressed frustration that China wasn’t being forthcoming. And it is extra of the identical. I imply China must – the Chinese authorities must be extra forthcoming when this stuff do come up in order that they can assist inform different nations as a result of inevitably what’s spreading there may be going to unfold in different elements of the world and all of us must be working collectively. So, I believe a few of the preliminary considerations that one thing novel could possibly be spreading in China had been effectively based as a result of China simply wasn’t being forthcoming, the Chinese authorities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the CDC director mentioned one thing just like you, that this isn’t a brand new or novel pathogen. How can the U.S. be assured if such as you’re saying China’s not sharing information?
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yes, I believe we have realized that we have to have extra lively surveillance. So, you continue to see testing of wastewater on planes popping out of sure elements of the world. Hopefully together with China. That’s one good method to defect if one thing novel is spreading there. We have good flu surveillance in that a part of the world as effectively. So, if there was a novel pressure of flu spreading, I believe we might detect it.
But the fact is that we’re topic to the cooperation of overseas governments. And overseas governments must be working with international well being authorities. We ought to have realized our classes popping out of Covid.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Quite a lot of nations did and do share extra readily. China doesn’t nonetheless. And that may be a actual frustration and a trigger for concern.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Gottlieb, all the time good to have your evaluation.
We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Last week noticed the departures of a number of well-known public servants. Their careers vary from extremely distinguished, to controversial, to disastrous.
Here’s Mark Strassmann.
(BEGIN VT)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): In gentle of the expulsion of the gentleman from New York, Mr. Santos, the entire variety of the House is now 434.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): George Santos, ex-congressman, ex, as in expelled. That a part of his resume is actual.
His parting shot reportedly as he left the Capitol, to hell with this place.
Over time he had turn into self-parody. His serial (ph) reward, his federal indictment for fraud, the best way he piled one fiction on one other seeming to breathe on another person’s dime.
GEORGE SANTOS (Former Member of Congress from New York): I now not need to reply a single query from you guys.
ROSALYNN CARTER (Former First Lady): The subsequent president of the United States, my husband, Jimmy Carter.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Rosalynn Carter put the general public in her service. Unelected however simple, Jimmy Carter’s first girl was highly effective.
ROSALYNN CARTER: He all the time knew how I felt. Sometimes he took my recommendation and typically he did not.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): In her lengthy life she championed psychological well being, girls’s rights and caregivers. Three former presidents and all 5 dwelling first girls saluted her final week. Mrs. Carter eulogized as a servant chief with a servant’s coronary heart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wouldn’t it’s fantastic if we had extra leaders that saved that covenant and served effectively.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Sandra Day O’Connor died final Friday at 93. The Stanford regulation grad was initially supplied jobs as a authorized secretary. She turned well-known and highly effective, the primary feminine Supreme Court justice. Its nickname throughout her tenure, the O’Connor court docket.
SANDRA DAY O’CONNOR (Former Supreme Court Justice): Opportunities at each degree, not only for legal professionals and judges, however throughout the spectrum opened for girls.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): O’Connor was thought of a swing vote on points like abortion. She disputed her position because the deciding vote in George Bush’s victory within the 2000 election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had been the deciding vote in that case when it comes all the way down to it.
SANDRA DAY O’CONNOR: I do not see how one can say anyone was the deciding vote.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, OK.
SANDRA DAY O’CONNOR: They all counted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They all counted.
SANDRA DAY O’CONNOR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don’t have any regrets I might say (ph)?
SANDRA DAY O’CONNOR: No. I imply it was a tricky deal in a carefully fought election. And it is no enjoyable to be a part of a gaggle of choice makers that has to determine which facet the ball goes to fall on.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): And Henry Kissinger. In fashionable occasions, no American diplomat was extra highly effective or polarizing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With us now, Henry Kissinger, who was nationwide safety adviser to President Nixon.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): A visitor on “FACE THE NATION” greater than 20 occasions, right here in 1985, ten years after the U.S. withdraw from Vietnam.
HENRY KISSINGER (National Security Adviser to President Nixon): The Kennedy and Johnson administrations took on a job that was higher than they estimated.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Celebrated for Nixon’s journey to China and vilified for the key carpet bombing of Cambodia. He each gained the Nobel Peace Prize and was pilloried as a struggle prison.
Right to his demise at 100, Kissinger tried to form U.S. coverage to advance American pursuits. His admirers hope he rests in peace with honor.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you may take a look at these FACE THE NATION appearances on our YouTube channel.
Thank you all for watching. Until subsequent week, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-full-transcript-12-03-2023/