On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- House Intelligence Committee chair Rep. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio
- Deputy National Security Adviser Jon Finer
- Dina Kawar, Jordanian Ambassador to the U.S.
- Sen. Chris Van Hollen, Democrat of Maryland
- Reps. Mike Gallagher, Republican of Wisconsin, and Raja Krishnamoorthi, Democrat of Illinois
Click right here to browse full transcripts of “Fac the Nation.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: From the Middle East to the Pacific rim, America’s affect is being examined all over the world. The lethal battle between Israel and Hamas has entered week seven, with no clear finish in sight, as Israeli forces intensify efforts to remove Hamas in Gaza.
Caught within the crossfire, Palestinian civilians and a society getting ready to collapse. Are we any nearer to rescuing greater than 200 hostages, some Americans, nonetheless held by Hamas?
We will test in with some key gamers from the Biden administration, Capitol Hill, and all over the world.
Then: After President Biden’s long-anticipated face-to-face assembly with Chinese President Xi Jinping, what’s subsequent for America’s relationship with its largest rival? We will hear from the bipartisan leaders of Congress’ China Committee.
Finally, as tempers flare right here in Washington…
(Begin VT)
REPRESENTATIVE MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-Oklahoma): Well, stand your butt up then.
SEAN O’BRIEN (General President, Teamsters): You stand your butt up.
SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS (I-Vermont): Oh, maintain it. No, maintain – cease it.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … ideas on the significance of restoring civility in our public discourse.
It’s all simply forward on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We start with the deteriorating situations in Gaza and new warnings by the United Nations that illness is a rising concern, as civilians shelter in crowded areas with scarce meals and water.
Meanwhile, it seems a take care of Hamas to launch some hostages in change for Israel permitting in some help to Gaza is taking form. Qatar’s prime minister, who’s concerned with mediating the talks, stated as we speak that an settlement is inside attain.
Imtiaz Tyab is in Jerusalem with the newest.
(Begin VT)
(CHANTING)
IMTIAZ TYAB (voice-over): They walked for days from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem of their 1000’s to demand the hostages being held in Gaza be launched…
PROTESTERS: Free all of them now!
IMTIAZ TYAB: … and to vent their fury at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s failure to fulfill repeatedly with the households of captives.
PROTESTER: Our authorities is not speaking to them, does not – is not telling them what is going on on, what’s on the – what’s on the desk, what are the gives, what are the explanations for and towards, nothing. Nobody’s speaking to them.
(MAN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
IMTIAZ TYAB: Multiple events, together with the U.S., have been negotiating for the discharge of captives, probably in change for a five-day pause in preventing and a serious improve in humanitarian help.
The negotiations stay ongoing as Israel seems to be increasing its offensive towards Hamas from Northern Gaza to the south, the place a whole lot of 1000’s of Palestinians have been advised to flee for his or her security. But nowhere, it appears, is secure. Massive Israeli airstrikes throughout Gaza over the previous 24 hours have killed dozens of civilians.
Many of the victims are youngsters, whose tiny our bodies have been wrapped in white fabric earlier than being taken for burial, as family members attempt to make sense of the incomprehensible.
But it is the Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza City which is being known as a dying zone. The World Health Organization have been in a position to entry it after Israeli forces took management of the principle well being heart earlier this week and are working to evacuate the remaining medical employees and sufferers, together with 32 infants in important situation.
The Israeli army took us to the sprawling hospital advanced on a late- evening go to to point out us what they are saying is proof of a Hamas command heart that was working underground, which incorporates this obvious sand-filled tunnel opening and these weapons.
The existence of the obvious Hamas command heart, which the U.S. has stated it additionally has intelligence on, has been central to Israel’s justification for its assault on the hospital and past.
There’s been a lot harm, a lot devastation to this hospital as a result of this hospital was described as a command heart for Hamas. Did you discover a command heart?
MAN #1: Oh, sure, we discovered a number of.
(CROSSTALK)
IMTIAZ TYAB: What does that imply, a number of?
MAN #1: OK, I’ll speak about it. But what you see here’s a fraction of the…
MAN #2: Equipment.
MAN #1: … gear we discovered.
(End VT)
IMTIAZ TYAB: And since our go to, the Israeli army has made a number of statements in regards to the so-far underwhelming proof of the obvious Hamas command heart at Al Shifa, saying we have been solely proven – quote – “preliminary findings” and that extra particulars could be shared quickly.
Hospitals, after all, have protected standing beneath worldwide regulation, Margaret, however Israel insists its assault on Gaza’s largest and most vital medical facility falls inside these boundaries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Great reporting from Imtiaz Tyab in Jerusalem.
We go now to the Republican chair of the House Intelligence Committee Mike Turner.
Good to have you ever again with us, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R-Ohio): Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve stated that that completely brutal and horrific assault on October 7 by Hamas was an enormous intelligence failure.
Things have been missed. And then there have been operational failures, as we all know, as soon as that assault was beneath method. Given these large blind spots, can the U.S. really be assured in Israeli intelligence now when it says that what it is doing is with full accuracy?
MIKE TURNER: Well, I believe there definitely is a niche that was surprising with respect to Israel’s intelligence gathering.
You know, after we noticed the failures of October 7, the place they did not see the – the rising horrendous Hamas assault and the taking of hostages that resulted in what you are reporting, we puzzled whether or not or not it was an absence of focus.
But now that the United States is definitely working with Israel, and making an attempt to help in finding Hamas and understanding Hamas’ construction, we’re really understanding that – that Israel has a niche in additionally capabilities.
Now, of the operational points, as you associated, as a result of we noticed an absence of response after the Hamas assault started to unfold, there additionally have been considerations as as to whether Israel was going to get to enter Gaza and to have the ability to find and to dismantle Hamas.
But I believe everybody’s seeing it. They’re progressing at a a lot sooner price than – than anybody had anticipated. But, nonetheless, as we see now, the experiences which are popping out of Gaza, as Israel experiences, what they’re undertaking, there definitely is – is concern and doubt.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you consider it’s militarily probably profitable objective to remove Hamas?
MIKE TURNER: Well, definitely, with any terrorist group and group, it is not simply the people which are working it that it’s a must to take a look at. It’s additionally its perform, its construction, its funds, its weapons programs, its command-and-control.
Those are issues that definitely Israel has the flexibility and they’re prosecuting the struggle to that, to allow them to considerably diminish Hamas’ capability to conduct assaults on Israel, and in addition give the Palestinians a chance to – to bridge to another type of authorities in Gaza.
You know, the Palestinians in Gaza are simply as a lot a prisoner and positively victims of Hamas as – as we’re seeing with the results on Israel.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you about threats right here at house.
But, in a short time, have you ever seen intelligence to again up among the reporting that claims a few of these Hamas attackers, who have been simply so brutal that they have been really on an amphetamine known as Captagon?
I do know a few of your Republican colleagues are attempting to take motion. Was {that a} issue right here?
MIKE TURNER: We haven’t got – I’ve not seen intelligence particularly about that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
MIKE TURNER: Like you, I’ve seen the information reporting. And it is definitely very troubling, as a result of it definitely reveals the viciousness of the assault.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Here at house, the FBI director, I do know, lately testified that overseas terrorist teams, together with Al Qaeda, have issued particular calls to assault the U.S.
How do you perceive the risk to the homeland now?
MIKE TURNER: You know, that is very – very uncommon for the FBI director to so publicly make these statements.
And, definitely, in his conversations with the Intelligence Committee, they have been on an unclassified foundation. So now we have the flexibility to speak about it. It definitely reveals the extent to which these threats are troubling the director.
And what he is indicated particularly is that, greater than a decade, the rise in terrorist threats to the United States contained in the United States is at its highest ever. And he cites the – the chaotic withdrawal of Afghanistan and our lack of intelligence gathering there. He cites the Southern border and people who’re allied with worldwide terrorist organizations which have crossed the border.
Those are two Biden administration insurance policies. So, for the FBI director to quote these, the place the – as threats…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MIKE TURNER: … the place the threats are emanating definitely reveals you the way vital these statements are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
So what wouldn’t it take to get you on board with supporting some type of overhaul of border coverage? I do know that, within the Senate, they’re speaking about making an attempt to bundle collectively a few of these initiatives?
MIKE TURNER: Well, I believe they – I believe they need to be boarded collectively.
And I’ve been on the White House a number of occasions speaking about what we name type of the quad nationwide safety package deal, the place they’re taking a look at Ukraine, Taiwan, East Asia, however border. Border needs to be part of it, and never simply funding for the border. It must be coverage modifications. Our border must be safe.
The FBI director has particularly cited that people who come throughout that border allied with worldwide terrorist organizations are a risk inner to the United States.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Congress went house for the subsequent few weeks. And you’ve got quite a lot of work to do earlier than the tip of the 12 months.
One of these issues, probably, is reauthorizing Section 702, which permits businesses to collect knowledge like cellphone calls and textual content messages from overseas nationals overseas. Some of your Republican colleagues like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz have stated they – they do not like Section 702.
Is the Republican managed House going to reauthorize this, and when?
MIKE TURNER: Absolutely.
The drawback is, there is a bunch of misinformation on the market. What you simply stated is totally right that 702 permits the gathering of foreigners exterior the United States who pose a nationwide safety risk to the United States.
We should proceed to gather that knowledge and data. It’s from which we’re in a position to preserve our nation safe. And, definitely, in that, we additionally seize these contained in the United States like these terrorists who’ve come throughout the southern border that the FBI talks about as being a risk right here, their communications exterior the United States with these terrorist teams and organizations, so we are able to observe them down and stop these assaults.
This is totally important. This is our post-9/11 construction. As our nationwide safety risk will increase, now we have to make sure that we keep the instruments which have stored us secure.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And simply to make clear right here, I do know that Border Patrol has stated there are individuals who’ve come throughout the border whose names match the phobia watch listing, however that does not essentially symbolize a terrorist or a suspected terrorist, only for anybody who’s involved there.
On the…
MIKE TURNER: But the FBI director has particularly stated that there are people which are allied with worldwide terrorist organizations who’ve come throughout the border that pose a risk.
That’s – that is the a part of what his final two weeks of public statements have been.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to ask you about labeled paperwork, as a result of CBS has been reporting that particular counsel Robert Hur is close to the tip of his investigation into President Biden and his alleged mishandling of labeled data.
If there are certainly no prices introduced, which is what we’re reporting, what do you suppose the sign can be to the nationwide safety world?
MIKE TURNER: Well, it – this can be definitely devastating, persevering with to be devastating for the Department of Justice into the Biden administration with their two-tier system of justice.
You know, Biden has been discovered to be a serial labeled doc hoarder. Over a 10-year interval, he is been taking labeled paperwork, among the most delicate that threaten our nationwide safety, house, with none safety, and positively in a position to – for others to have the ability to entry them.
There must be penalties. The proven fact that Hillary Clinton, who had over 100 labeled paperwork at house when she was secretary of state and Vice President Biden, each beneath Obama on the similar time, have been taking labeled paperwork house, and positively had them be weak, with no penalties, reveals the Department of Justice just isn’t pursuing Democrats.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, as you understand, there’s a distinction with the case towards President Trump, who refused handy over paperwork totally and violated the Espionage Act, that is the cost towards him, as a result of he did not work with the federal government handy these over.
MIKE TURNER: Well, as you understand, Margaret, Biden – Biden – Biden had these paperwork for over 10 years.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MIKE TURNER: You cannot hoard paperwork in your house for a ten – a decade- lengthy interval, concealing them, taking them house as a senator, vp, after which all of a sudden say, hey, two weeks whereas I used to be president, I – – I cooperated and, due to this fact, it does not depend that I spent 10 years as a serial labeled doc hoarder.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, all proper.
Well, we’ll have to depart it there for as we speak. Thanks, as at all times, for becoming a member of us.
MIKE TURNER: Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the deputy nationwide safety adviser, Jon Finer.
Good morning.
JON FINER (White House Principal Deputy National Security Adviser): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know hostage diplomacy is extraordinarily delicate. We’ve been near an enormous breakthrough earlier than after which fallen aside.
But, this morning, Qatar’s prime minister says we’re shut sufficient to succeed in a deal and the variations are simply logistical at this level. Does the U.S. share that evaluation?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: What I can say at this level is we share the evaluation that many areas of distinction that earlier – beforehand existed have been narrowed, that we consider we’re nearer than now we have been to reaching a last settlement, however that, on a problem as delicate as this and as difficult is that this, the mantra that nothing is agreed till every part is agreed actually does apply.
And we don’t but have an settlement in place. And so, till that’s the case, you understand, we’re not going to put out all the main points in public.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Israel’s prime minister stated on CBS lately that they’d intelligence indicating that there have been hostages at Al Shifa Hospital, however none have been discovered. There have been two our bodies discovered close by.
Did the U.S. share the evaluation that hostages have been being held at – on the hospital? Because there was a launch suggesting that from declassified intelligence the U.S. shared. Was the U.S. evaluation fallacious?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: So, what I’m going to let you know is what now we have put out by way of intelligence that now we have been in a position to share and that we have been in a position to downgrade on Al Shifa.
And, look, it is a microcosm of the challenges related to this complete battle, as a result of that is clearly a hospital, the place there are sufferers who have been being handled, essentially the most superior hospital in Gaza, additionally a spot the place harmless civilians have gathered in the course of the course this battle.
And all of these harmless lives are sacred to us, are equal in worth to lives wherever which are harmless. We’ve additionally stated and been fairly clear that now we have intelligence data, not simply Israeli intelligence, however American intelligence, that Hamas has used this facility to construct terrorist infrastructure, to do command and management for fight operations.
And we have been fairly clear about that. But we have additionally stated that none of that authorizes, in our view, direct army strikes from the air or on the bottom towards that hospital. So that’s the sophisticated knot that the Israeli Defense Forces discover themselves in. And that’s how we’re advising them to proceed at this level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
The downgraded evaluation shared by the White House stated the U.S. believes that there might be, in Al Shifa Hospital, a command node and tunnels beneath and that, up to now, these hospitals have been used to carry hostages. That’s why I used to be asking you, since none have been discovered there, if the U.S. really thought there could be hostages there.
There has been no command…
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: One factor I might say about that, Margaret, is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: … is that that facility continues to be being exploited by the Israeli Defense Forces.
I count on you may see extra data within the coming days. I believe we really feel assured within the data that we have put out. And let’s have a look at what their investigation reveals and the place it leads.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Israel’s prime minister was on this community this week and advised my colleague Norah O’Donnell, that they’re making an attempt to trigger minimal civilian casualties, however – quote – “Unfortunately, we’re not successful.”
Given that acknowledgement by Israel, I ponder if the administration is making use of the Leahy Act right here that will enable for the United States to limit some army gear primarily based on human rights foundation.
Is Israel exempt from that? Given what’s occurred and what Israel is acknowledging, do it is advisable change that?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: No international locations are, clearly, exempt from legal guidelines of armed battle or from U.S. statutory restrictions, however, past that, I’m not going to say extra.
What I’ll say, although is – is, now we have been fairly clear that Israel has each proper to defend itself towards the risk that it faces. That consists of, by the best way, the precise to go after Hamas management, who they are saying now have fled to the southern a part of Gaza and have sought refuge there.
So, within the – within the occasion that we consider that Israel is prone to – to embark on fight operations, together with within the south, we consider each that they’ve the precise to do this, however that there’s a actual concern, as a result of a whole lot of 1000’s of residents of Gaza have fled now from the north to the south, at Israel’s request.
And we expect that their operations shouldn’t go ahead till these individuals – these extra civilians, have been accounted for of their – of their army planning. And so we can be conveying that on to them and have been conveying that on to them.
They ought to draw classes from how the operation proceeded within the north, together with classes that result in higher and enhanced protections for civilian life, issues like narrowing the world of – of energetic fight, clarifying the place civilians can search refuge from the preventing.
But I may also reiterate that Hamas takes no such precautions, in truth, brazenly and wantonly flouts and virtually brags about its need to perpetrate struggle crimes. And so that is an adversary that doesn’t maintain itself to the usual that we and others consider is important.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. Hamas is extraordinarily brutal.
I need to shortly ask you about President Biden’s op-ed that he revealed in “The Washington Post.” He stated the U.S. is ready to subject visa bans towards extremists. He was referring to Israeli settlers shifting into the West Bank.
Does that risk have tooth, provided that there are estimates that American residents make up as a lot as 15 % of the settler inhabitants?
PRINCIPAL DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JON FINER: Look, the president has been extraordinarily clear, I believe far past even what a lot of his predecessors stated, about our considerations about developments on the West Bank, and, specifically, our considerations about violence perpetrated towards harmless Palestinians by excessive settlers.
He stated that in public speeches. He stated that in an op-ed that he has revealed simply this weekend. And, as he indicated, and as we are actually shifting to operationalize, that would embrace penalties that the U.S. would impose on individuals related to violence towards innocents within the West Bank, together with a ban on them with the ability to journey to the United States on visas.
And we’re shifting in that path, and we’ll have extra to say about that, I’m positive, within the coming days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
Jon Finer, thanks very a lot on your time this morning.
And Face the Nation can be again in a minute, so stick with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re now joined by Maryland Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen.
It’s good to have you ever right here in individual.
SENATOR CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-Maryland): It’s good to be with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So much to speak to you about as we speak. But I need to shortly simply ask you, since Congress simply went house for the higher a part of two weeks, they have not reauthorized quite a lot of issues. And they have not handed the supplemental for Israel, for Ukraine, Taiwan.
Is that going to get achieved earlier than the tip of the 12 months?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN We should get it achieved by the tip of the 12 months.
We should cross the supplemental request, which incorporates, as you say, desperately wanted army help for Ukraine, assist for Israel, humanitarian help, in addition to assist for our companions within the Indo- Pacific area.
One of the problems, as I’m positive you understand, that is being mentioned is making an attempt to get one thing achieved with respect to frame safety and immigration reform. And there are ongoing, bipartisan discussions as we converse.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I perceive that is taking place by means of the recess…
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN That’s true. That is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … for the border.
Do you understand – I imply, is it actually life like, although, that – that is a really onerous subject – that that is going to get achieved earlier than 2023’s up?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN Well, there are good-faith negotiations occurring. Whether they get achieved or not, I do not know.
But let me simply say, it appears to me that, given the determined scenario in Ukraine…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN … it’s irresponsible for individuals to say that we’ll enable Putin to proceed his assault on Ukraine and solely going to supply that help if we get a deal on one thing else.
I need to get a deal on immigration reform, but it surely does not make sense to me to attach the 2.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you wrote a letter this month endorsing extra funding for Israel, but additionally urgent the Biden administration on its evaluation of whether or not these army objectives are literally achievable and the way that nation is defending civilians.
Are you happy with what the White House has advised you?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN We’re nonetheless awaiting a public response from the Biden administration.
We’ve not obtained that public response but. We have had outreach on the highest ranges. And we have been supplied, these of us who signed the letter, to fulfill with the president’s prime nationwide safety and overseas coverage crew to debate a few of these points.
But – however we’re nonetheless awaiting a solution to the letter, as a result of we requested quite a lot of questions that we expect are vital to get solutions to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is hurting the president along with his fellow Democrats, is not it?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN Well, I do not know if it is hurting the president with fellow Democrats.
I do suppose it is vital that the president converse out extra clearly on this subject. Let me say this. In the aftermath of the horrific Hamas assaults of October 7, you will have, I believe, nearly each senator supporting Israel’s goal of going after Hamas and neutralizing them from a army perspective, no extra October 7s.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN But we additionally have to do, as Secretary Blinken stated, see – how Israel conducts this operation is vital.
And so many people have been involved, just some weeks in the past, when one of many White House National Security spokesperson was requested if the United States has any pink traces.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN And the reply was no, which implies something goes.
And – and that can not be according to American pursuits and American values. So, that is why we’re asking these questions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It cannot be constant, as a result of that is not the coverage for another nation that the United States offers army help to.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN Look, that – that is proper.
Look, we – now we have a – a coverage of making an attempt to ensure that our funds are utilized in a way that advances our curiosity and our values. And in the event you take a look at what’s taking place proper now in Gaza, the determined humanitarian disaster, clearly, that is extra that may be achieved.
And in the event you take a look at the extent of civilian casualties, Secretary Blinken himself has acknowledged that there are extra measures that the Netanyahu authorities can take to cut back the excessive stage of civilian casualties, two-thirds of them youngsters.
So, because of this we’re asking the president questions. We need to work with the president to get extra assurances that our pursuits and values can be protected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, now we have to take a break, however I would like you to remain right here with us for extra Face the Nation.
And all of you stick with us too.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For the very newest on the presidential elections, go to the CBS News YouTube web page. Our senior White House and political correspondent, Ed O’Keefe, is internet hosting a brand new weekly evaluation of the newest developments within the 2024 race for the White House.
We can be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION.
And now we have extra questions now for Senator Chris van Hollen.
Senator, I need to choose up on one thing you have been elevating considerations about for some time. Going again to July, I discovered a letter the place you have been saying to the White House you had considerations in regards to the greater than 3 billion in safety help to Israel since you thought taxpayer cash shouldn’t defend settlers who’re attacking and burning Palestinian villages with immunity.
Last evening the president began very publicly saying he’ll begin making an attempt to crack down. What do you consider this plan to limit visas?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: I used to be happy to listen to the president say what he – he stated. And I totally assist the president’s plan to limit visas from individuals who have a document of violence towards harmless individuals. So, I believe that is an vital first step.
As you understand, excessive settler violence towards Palestinians has been a problem for a really very long time. We’ve seen an enormous spike in extremist settler violence for the reason that – the Gaza struggle began as individuals have been centered on the struggle there. A 500 % improve.
The Palestinians have been killed by extremist settlers, their homes burned down, pushed out of villages, olive orchards chopped down in the midst of olive season, which is the primary earnings producing time for lots of those villagers. So, it is a massive, massive drawback.
Remember, within the Netanyahu coalition you will have some very excessive members. Smotrich, Ben-Gvir, considered one of them, you understand, belongs to the successor social gathering, to the Kahanism (ph) social gathering, a celebration that was on the U.S. terrorist watch listing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: So, because of this it is crucial for the United States to weigh in and weigh in strongly. I’m glad to see the president do what he did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they have been within the authorities properly earlier than October the seventh.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: That’s proper.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just shortly, you have made some statements that being pro- Israeli does not require being anti-Palestinian and vice versa. Why do you suppose that that is a controversial assertion?
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Well, it should not be, proper?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Because you may be each pro-Israel, as I’m, and in addition pro-Palestinian and assist Palestinian rights and aspirations to self- willpower and a homeland of their very own. In truth, the president’s imaginative and prescient, when he sees some mild perhaps on the finish of this darkish tunnel, has been a two-state answer. Israel residing securely with a Palestinian state as a neighbor, the place Palestinians have equal dignity and full rights.
And one of many issues with what’s taking place on the West Bank proper now’s while you push the Palestinians off of their lands, you make it even more durable to have a two-state answer. You strengthen Hamas, you weaken the Palestinian Authority, and also you make it more durable.
So, I used to be dissatisfied to see Prime Minister Netanyahu smack down President Biden’s name for a two-state answer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: This goes to imply that the president, President Biden, has to do much more to place ahead a transparent imaginative and prescient of how we’ll emerge from this very darkish tunnel right into a shiny future.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I believe all of us hope for a brighter future.
Senator, thanks very a lot on your time as we speak.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll flip now to Jordan’s ambassador to the United States, Dina Kawar.
Ambassador, good to have you ever right here in individual.
DINA KAWAR (Jordanian Ambassador to the United States): Thank you very a lot, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, earlier than the struggle there have been extra be than 2 million youngsters in Gaza. Estimated 4,600 have been killed up to now few weeks. And for many who do survive, a lot of them are disabled.
I ponder what you suppose this does to the safety of the area to have these subsequent generations so impacted?
DINA KAWAR: Margaret, the pictures we’re seeing out of Gaza usually are not the identical photographs that the United States is seeing on the mainstream media. We’re watching our social media and everyone within the Arab world is doing the identical. The photographs are flabbergasting and really, very unhappy.
When you see parenting on the lookout for their – the stays of their useless children in – in grocery store baggage, otherwise you’re seeing youngsters on the lookout for dad and mom or any acquainted face as a result of they’re left alone on this world.
Now, out of the 11,500 useless, the bulk are ladies and youngsters for positive. And that is asking ourselves, like 17,000 to 18,000 youngsters are going to be orphans. What will we do with that? Some research have proven that among the Hamas – the vast majority of Hamas fighters have been orphans.
So, our name right here is for a cease-fire. The Jordanian authorities is asking for a cease-fire. And his majesty has spoken in regards to the significance of going to a cease-fire, not as a result of we – we need to suppose in a different way from the remainder of the world, however as a result of we really feel that with the Arab international locations and with the Islamic international locations, that is the one method ahead to cease this struggle and to take a seat across the desk and return to negotiations.
The humanitarian scenario within the West Bank is past. And proper now what’s worrying us is the UNRWA experiences which are popping out of Gaza –
MARGARET BRENNAN: The U.N. experiences.
DINA KAWAR: Yes. UNRWA is the one on the – on the bottom. And they’ve misplaced 103 individuals out of them.
You’ve – you have misplaced 49 colleagues as journalists. We’ve misplaced 200 individuals from the medical well being system. And UNRWA is apprehensive about out of the 154 facilities they’ve in – within the West Bank – within the – in Gaza, sorry –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DINA KAWAR: They are inundated with round 830,000 IDPs. These IDPs got here from the north to the south as a result of they have been requested –
MARGARET BRENNAN: (INAUDIBLE) individuals, proper.
DINA KAWAR: Yes. And these displaced individuals have been requested to depart the north very quickly to go to the south and now they’re requested to depart the south. Didn’t – did not anyone suppose that if Hamas is within the north they’d go to the south? Didn’t anyone suppose that this army technique goes to work? So, our fear is that this violence goes simply to breed violence and it is placing strain within the area.
And in the event you can not speak to the ethical compass of the world, nor to the humanitarian emotions, let’s speak strategic – strategic considering. And that is the place we’re going.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and I need to go there with you as properly.
We ought to say that estimated 4,600 youngsters, that is from the Gaza Health Ministry, however nobody has an correct evaluation, together with the United States authorities, as a result of they can not really get in there and depend our bodies.
DINA KAWAR: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it’s a super quantity of dying.
Your authorities has needed to airdrop in medical help to among the personnel you do have on the bottom there. I perceive there was an assault towards a area hospital.
DINA KAWAR: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who carried it out? What occurred?
DINA KAWAR: OK. We have the hospital, a army hospital, south of Gaza City. And now we’ll have a second one within the south of Gaza.
Now, the one which was struck was – there was – there is a mosque subsequent to the hospital and the Israeli army bombarded that mosque and other people have been working as a result of they have been injured, working to the hospital. And as our army individuals got here out to assist them, they acquired additionally hit. So, we had seven injured, and now they’re OK. They’ve been taken care of.
But we don’t discover it regular that – that every one the hospitals are attacked. We don’t discover it regular that we’re attacking civilians and – and a collective punishment. This can not go on, Margaret. This can not go on. It’s not fixing the issue. So, now – and now there is a third hospital within the West Bank as properly.
Also, regarding the West Bank as a result of we’re speaking about Gaza rather a lot. Just one phrase in regards to the gas scarcity in Gaza. It is getting so sophisticated that we – that we’re apprehensive in regards to the well being hazard in – in – in Gaza. The WHO, the World Health Organization, is warning that if there isn’t any gas coming in, it may be an issue for the sewage system, for the water pumping desalination.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DINA KAWAR: And canine are consuming our bodies in the event you – as a result of they’ve – not everyone is ready to – to place individuals into – into burial morgues (ph). So, we have to fear about this as a result of in any other case we can have illnesses that we did not have earlier than.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DINA KAWAR: We have to get extra openings and our charity, the (INAUDIBLE) charity group, is working rather a lot on – on getting this help. And we’re calling upon the – the world that’s wanting to assist to both assist UNRWA, that’s on the bottom, or purchase objects which are within the nation, whether or not in Egypt or Jordan, to assist to ship to – to Gaza.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you as a result of Jordan has had a peace treaty with Israel for 30 years. You have commerce. You have all types of contact with them. Do you are worried that the subsequent technology of Jordanians, or the encompassing international locations, won’t be able to take care of the peace that they’ve had for many years due to what’s taking place now?
DINA KAWAR: Well, there’s quite a lot of strain –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it destabilizing?
DINA KAWAR: It – I would not say the phrase destabilizing, however it’s placing quite a lot of strain on – on his majesty and on the federal government as a result of persons are offended. They see the pictures each day. I imply we’re all offended. It’s very humiliating. It’s very hurtful and it is – it is inhuman. And we’re simply questioning, how far is that this going to go? We’re calling for a ceasefire. We’re calling to return to negotiations.
And because the senator stated, we don’t to be – you do – you – the one option to be pro-Israeli is to ask for peace. And the one option to be pro-Palestinian is to ask for peace. And that is widespread grounds for each of us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
DINA KAWAR: So, we have to go additional on that. And on the settlers. Just as a phrase within the West Bank. The settlers are going haywire, unhinged and usually are not caring in regards to the regulation and no person’s in a position to cease them. Every day there are eight (ph) assaults on Palestinians and they’re mistreating them, humiliating them, sending movies throughout social media of them bare and in – in conditions which are unacceptable. They are attacking additionally the Armenian quarters, they’re attacking Christian worshipers in Jerusalem. So, we’re questioning how far more do they should do to be stopped?
So, I used to be very blissful and we have been very blissful to see the op-ed of – of the president. We’re very grateful that he mentions the difficulty of the settlements and that they should – to consider the civilians and stopping of the killing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll see – we’ll see if there’s extra on that this coming week because the White House has promised.
Thank you, Ambassador.
DINA KAWAR: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the chairman and rating member of the House Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, Republican Mike Gallagher and Democrat Raja Krishnamoorthi.
Good morning to you each.
Gentlemen, we like bipartisan conversations on this program, so welcome again.
REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI, (D-IL): Good morning.
REP. MIKE GALLAGHER (R-WI): Thank you. Great to be right here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I need to put it to you each then, can you’re employed collectively to cross this, what, $4 billion President Biden is asking for, for Taiwan and Asian allies earlier than the tip of the 12 months?
Congressman Gallagher, Republicans are in management, so I’ll go to you first.
MIKE GALLAGHER: I believe we are able to. And I need to salute the rating member for his management in setting the intense tone that our committee has been working beneath. The remainder of Congress has been descending into what appears to be like like a highschool actuality TV program, however we have been in a position to work collectively. And so that provides me quite a lot of optimism, significantly in mild of the rising risk to Taiwan.
One factor that went virtually unreported amidst Biden and Xi’s summit is that Xi tripled down on his threats to Taiwan. He reportedly stated to the president of their assembly that peace and stability within the area are much less vital than fixing the Taiwan query. The CCP’s official assertion afterwards stated that we have to cease arming Taiwan and assist the reunification effort.
So, all of this could remind us that no quantity of relentless diplomacy will make a distinction if we do not repair the basic drawback, which is that the stability of onerous energy throughout the strait and all through the Indo- Pacific area is eroding and with it the chance of struggle is growing, which is why we have to act earlier than it is too late.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Congressman Krishnamoorthi, you are assured earlier than the tip of 2023 that is going to cross?
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: We haven’t any alternative. We should cross this. The president’s completely right to ask for this funding, not just for Taiwan, however for Ukraine, in addition to Israel, and different priorities. They’re all inextricably linked. We should ensure that we ship the precise message to Xi Jinping.
Now, a current survey confirmed {that a} majority of voters consider {that a} struggle is feasible within the subsequent ten years. And they’re very involved about it. Three quarters of Democrats and Republicans need us to stop struggle. And one of the simplest ways to do this is to ensure that we deter aggression by equipping Taiwan with what it wants to stop aggression, but additionally to tone down the rhetoric and ensure that now we have diplomacy with the very best ranges of the CCP.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tone down the rhetoric. In an election 12 months no much less.
Congressman Gallagher, I learn that you just need to subpoena probably the principle sponsors of a dinner that Xi Jinping attended with among the largest CEOs within the United States. CEOs from Blackstone, KKR, Pfizer, Boeing, FedEx, Apple, BlackRock. What do you search to attain there? Don’t you understand the names of everybody who purchased tickets?
MIKE GALLAGHER: Well, I by no means talked about a subpoena, so I do not know the place that report is coming from.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was in “Bloomberg.”
MIKE GALLAGHER: I’ll remark broadly on the dinner, which I assumed was disgusting.
Well, “Bloomberg” acquired it fallacious on this case. $40,000 to eat coffee-rubbed flank steak and sip cake bread, Sovereign Blanc with Xi Jinping. And what’s worse than that’s the truth that they gave him a standing ovation. This a communist dictator who’s dedicated a genocide in Xinjiang, who’s committing a cultural genocide in Tibet, who has fully destroyed civil society in Hong Kong, who’s risking, as we simply talked about, scary World War III. To give him a standing ovation. And what’s even worse than that’s, it wasn’t simply the individuals you’d count on, like Tim Cook from Apple or BlackRock, it was American protection contractors. All the extra purpose why Congress, I believe, must step as much as lower off the move of U.S. capital to Chinese army firms, to specify the suitable stage of de-risking or diversification so now we have a more healthy financial relationship to modernize our army as a result of company America and Wall Street have confirmed repeatedly they’re prepared to promote out American pursuits so as to become profitable in China.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the 2 economies are so extremely intertwined. I imply the actual fact that Rahm Emanuel –
MIKE GALLAGHER: Absolutely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president’s ambassador to Japan, stated, “the CEOs literally have their R&D, their intellectual property stolen from them and they gave Xi Jinping a standing ovation.” Doesn’t that simply let you know that China’s nice – biggest leverage right here is monetary and the fact is that it is not going to be unwound?
MIKE GALLAGHER: Well, it needs to be unwound, at the very least partially. I’m not arguing for a complete decoupling.
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: I personally suppose it needs to be.
MIKE GALLAGHER: Go forward, Raja. Sorry.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Go forward.
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I used to be simply saying that I believe that our – even with none U.S. authorities motion, I’m – I’m heartened that quite a lot of firms within the non-public sector are de-risking, are lowering their publicity in China. That explicit dinner left a nasty style in my mouth. I do not suppose that folks have been paying $40,000 for the coffee-crusted steaks. They have been paying for entry.
I hope that additionally they introduced up a few of our considerations with regard to financial aggression that the CCP is routinely training towards American entities. For our half on the Select Committee I need to simply say, I’m very glad to be working with Mike on methods to work with the Biden administration to cut back our investments in entities in China which are fueling the PLA’s army modernization and human rights abuses. Thankfully, the Federal Thrift Savings Plan listened to us lately once they determined to take away investments in exactly these entities. So I believe what we’re doing on the committee is having a distinction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Gallagher and Krishnamoorthi, I need to ask you about what you thought was achieved on the summit as a result of expectations have been set very low, proper? Just answering the cellphone, army to army, and getting China to implement a few of its present insurance policies to chop down on the move of fentanyl precursor chemical compounds.
So, do you each suppose this was successful simply to easily have the 2 leaders nose to nose?
GALLAGHER: Well, I welcome the institution of a disaster communication channel in a lot because it reduces the chance of miscommunication resulting in struggle. I’m skeptical of the fentanyl settlement, I’ve to admit, solely as a result of we have seen this film earlier than, however definitely I – something to cut back the devastating results of – that fentanyl is inflicting all throughout America could be welcomed.
My concern extra broadly, and whereas I believe it is too early to characterize this by some means, is that at any time when now we have summits like this, we are likely to pay money up entrance, however for the CCP the test is at all times within the mail. And as I stated earlier than, a very powerful type of communication is the investments we make in our personal onerous powered posture within the Indo-Pacific. And not we’re merely not simply shifting onerous sufficient. We’ve had two administrations now of various events which have did not implement a deterrence by denial posture within the Pacific.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Krishnamoorthi, was it successful?
RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI: I – properly, I believe it was very promising. I believe that their settlement with (INAUDIBLE) cooperation on fentanyl is an effective first step. I additionally just like the institution of the military-to-military communications channels. I – fairly frankly, I like the truth that Xi Jinping was pandering and he’ll ship a number of pandas to the United States and improve industrial flights each methods.
What I might have preferred to have seen somewhat extra is speak in regards to the human rights abuses and the crackdown on Uyghurs, Tibetans and dissidents in China. I’m hopeful that we are able to see extra motion on that exact rating.
But look, Margaret, their expectations for the summit have been tremendous low. You know, so long as a Chinese spy balloon is not flying over the U.S. now following the newest assembly, I believe that it is in all probability going to be considered as having met expectations and exceeded them in all probability.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The feedback from Xi on the pandas was somewhat squishy too. It wasn’t a tough dedication that everybody’s getting their pandas again right here.
But, Congressman, on the – the one factor that you’ve got, as I perceive it, subpoenaed was in regard to an unlawful bio lab in California. Your committee took this on. What did you uncover and what’s your message to the administration?
MIKE GALLAGHER: Well, native officers in Reedley found this unlawful bio lab the place there have been transgenic mice, there was all types of kit, there have been vials containing Ebola, HIV, harmful pathogens. And once they known as the CDC and the FBI, they refused to analyze. The CDC hung up on them in lots of circumstances.
We additionally found that the proprietor of the biolab, Jesse Shu, was a fugitive. He was right here illegally. He was fleeing a $330 million IP judgment towards him and he was receiving all types of unexplained wire transfers to the full of $2 million from China. He was a Chinese nationwide.
Bottom line is, we simply haven’t got acceptable journey wires in place. You can purchase some of these things illegally on-line. We have to have a extra sturdy protection in depth for biolabs like this. We cannot enable this to occur once more. And we have to assist native officers –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MIKE GALLAGHER: Not grasp up on them once they name the federal authorities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. More to speak about with you each. Thank you on your time as we speak. We’re going to have to depart it there.
We’ll be again in a second.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congress has not been the friendliest place of late, however even by as we speak’s diminished requirements we have been struck by the lapse in decorum on Capitol Hill final week.
(BEGIN VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice over): Since Election Day on November seventh, greater than a half dozen members of Congress have introduced plans to retire, resign or search one other job.
This previous week’s gorgeous lack of civility on Capitol Hill might provide a glimpse as to why.
A U.S. senator, Oklahoma Republican Markwayne Mullin, challenged a testifying witness, a teamster’s boss, to a combat.
SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): Well, stand your butt up then.
SEAN O’BRIEN (President, International Brotherhood of Teamsters): You stand your butt up, massive man.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Oh, maintain it – maintain – cease it. All proper, maintain it.
MARKWAYNE MULLEN: Is that your answer to each drawback?
BERNIE SANDERS: No, no, sit down.
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice over): Americans have sufficient contempt for Congress, Senator Sanders stated. Let’s not make it worse.
The former speaker of the House denied deliberately hitting one of many members who voted to oust him.
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): No, I didn’t elbow him. No, I might not elbow him.
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I imply it was only a clear shot to the kidneys.
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice over): This breakdown in discourse sparked comparability to the 1850s when pro-slavery Democratic House member Preston Brooks beat anti-slavery Republican Senator Charles Sumner unconscious. The nation was on the cusp of civil struggle then. It is not clear what we’re on the cusp of now.
Former president and main Republican candidate, Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP (Former U.S. President and 2024 Presidential Candidate): We will root out the communists, Marxist, fascist and the unconventional left thugs that reside like vermin inside the confines of our nation.
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice over): On stage at rallies, on TV, and on social media, inflammatory language is widespread. Rival Chris Christie derided it as TV powerful man speak.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE): When Ron DeSantis thinks it sounds powerful, by saying he’ll slit the throats of bureaucrats, or shoot immigrants stone chilly useless on the border, that is basically unserious.
MARGARET BRENNAN (voice over): The FBI warned once more this week of a heightened risk atmosphere within the U.S. These protesters claimed to be in favor of Middle East peace, however they injured six Capitol Hill cops exterior Democratic committee headquarters.
Violence the brand new Republican speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, condemned as he defended the officers. It is not clear how the security of these exact same officers can be impacted by his Friday launch of the express safety footage of the January sixth assault on the Capitol.
A 12 months out from a heated presidential race, let’s all carry some civility again to our politics. The severe points dealing with our nation require it.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN (on digicam): We’ll be proper again.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us as we speak. Thank you all for watching. Until subsequent week, for FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-full-transcript-11-19-2023/
